Show Me the Money

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

There are only 4200 UPC pastors in North America. What percentage are you suggesting are money hungry thieves?

If you can provide me the church governance data, I can compute that percentage for you since it appears you are looking for an exact number...


...too many are ignorant and are following a distorted model set before them and are not being intentional, but for some ignorance is bliss, and for others they dont know better...sadly, they have not investigated this thoroughly.

Awareness is the first step toward restoration!

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

It's utterly ridiculous and an outright fabrication to insinuate that because some ask
for a biblical God-ordained accounting of the handling of the tithe are in any form or fashion anti-preacher.

I personally have eaten and been clothed by the generosity of some of the hardest-working saints in Pentecost.

What has become apparent is that some modern-day leeching Levites refuse to examine the topic of biblical giving in context to
rest of the Word ... while belittling and slamming any half-brained saint who questions their authority ....and that friends ...
is the crux of the issue.

I've seen and eaten w/ men of God who are Kingdom-minded and not feifdom-obsessed.

I quite frankly refuse not to accept the edicts of carnal men who claim that they hold a monopoly on truth but will only pick and choose
what aspects of truth need to be on the forefront.

For the franchise owners who want to obfuscate ... no matter how you flip it, sautee it, skillet or grill it ... no one
is against giving in abundance to the work of the Kingdom or the man of God ... this is about timeless biblical principles conveniently
ignored about church governance and distribution of the grain in the storehouse. Many criticize the Dolars of the Prosperity movement when they themselves do not realize that they are the pre-cursors to this shameless movement.

Brother Strange, we now have a class of pseudo-ministers among the servants of the Most High ... posing.

P.S. Men died to have the scriptures translated in their vernacular ... for the right to read their own bible ... and the biblical truth of the priesthood of all believers.

I have met your breed all my life for all the posturing you do the problem is you for some reason have gotten bitter and dispise the ministry maybe you was hurt who knows. But trying to hide your loathing is impossible. But the church goes on and the preachers preach and love the saints and the saints love them. And both are rewarded saints with spiritual things and preachers with carnal things(Paul's wording). Where there is no ox the crib is clean much increase is known by the strength of the ox the wise man said. Take your water pistol and shoot at the Sun but you'll never put it out.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I have met your breed all my life for all the posturing you do the problem is you for some reason have gotten bitter and dispise the ministry maybe you was hurt who knows. But trying to hide your loathing is impossible. But the church goes on and the preachers preach and love the saints and the saints love them. And both are rewarded saints with spiritual things and preachers with carnal things(Paul's wording). Where there is no ox the crib is clean much increase is known by the strength of the ox the wise man said. Take your water pistol and shoot at the Sun but you'll never put it out.

What's interesting is that I've met your breed also. Seeking to fit everyone in a box because it is then easy to marginalize them ... The problem here is I haven't been wronged or feel bitter .... but I do see the strong likelihood of a man who refuses to re-examine and stretch his faith simply because it's the way its always been.

[Jehoram]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

If you can provide me the church governance data, I can compute that percentage for you since it appears you are looking for an exact number...


...too many are ignorant and are following a distorted model set before them and are not being intentional, but for some ignorance is bliss, and for others they dont know better...sadly, they have not investigated this thoroughly.

Awareness is the first step toward restoration!

Friend, you do realize how pompous you sound - right?

You appear to have it all figured out. You have set yourself above every minister in North America with your comments.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

Look, everyone gets it guys. We all agree there should be proper accounting. What more do you want? I refuse to believe that the majority of Oneness preachers are money-hungry and selfish.

How many ministers do you and I know who have incorporated their churches for tax purposes but have set up fictitious boards because the law requires them to do so?

[Jehoram]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

How many minister do you and I know who have incorporated their churches for tax purposes but have set up fictitious boards because the law requires them to do so?

Zero.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

Look, everyone gets it guys. We all agree there should be proper accounting. What more do you want? I refuse to believe that the majority of Oneness preachers are money-hungry and selfish.

And it's not just proper accounting...but proper understanding that the entire "so called tithe" (since it does not measure up to the true meaning of the word tithe, but I will use it right now to mean the giving of money from the saints) does not belong to a Pastor....that is unbiblical and shameful for those that think it does. There are a lot of fronts to cover in this debate, but the entire giving does not belong to the Pastor.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

Zero.

The boards may exist but they are nominal in function ... and you, of course, know it.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

There are only 4200 UPC pastors in North America. What percentage are you suggesting are money hungry thieves?

Originally Posted by J-Roc

If you can provide me the church governance data, I can compute that percentage for you since it appears you are looking for an exact number...


...too many are ignorant and are following a distorted model set before them and are not being intentional, but for some ignorance is bliss, and for others they dont know better...sadly, they have not investigated this thoroughly.

Awareness is the first step toward restoration!

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

Friend, you do realize how pompous you sound - right?

You appear to have it all figured out. You have set yourself above every minister in North America with your comments.

Friend, I know how to read financial data (i.e. P&L Statements, Income/Expense Reports)...how does having this ability or skill make me pompous? You asked a question and I told you how I can answer it (i.e. SHOW ME THE MONEY) ...and now you resort to saying I sound pompous?

[Jehoram]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

The boards may exist but they are nominal in function ... and you, of course, know it.

No I don't Daniel. I seriously do not know of one pastor around me like that.

We joke around a lot, but I am serious. I truly do not know anyone like that.