Apology to World

[coadie]

The Arabs had tribal gods in which they worshipped. Every tribe had their own God. "The Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born was particularly devoted to ALLAH..." (Islamic Invasion, Morey, p.51, emphasis mine). Before Muhammad was EVER BORN, his tribe worshipped Allah, and he was the CHIEF GOD OF MECCA: "Its been pointed out that Mecca was in the control of the Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born" (ibid., pp.39-40). Since they were in control of Mecca, it was only right that their God was chief of the Kaaba in Mecca.

"In pre-Islamic days, called the Days of Ignorance, the religious background of the Arabs was pagan, and basically animistic. Through wells, trees, stones, caves, springs, and other natural objects man could make contact with the deity... At Mekka, Allah was the chief of the gods and THE SPECIAL DEITY OF THE QURAISH, THE PROPHET'S TRIBE. Allah had three daughters: " (Van Ess, John, Meet the Arab, New York, 1943, p. 29)

Are you sill claiming Mohammad "diiscovered " allah and his parents were pagans? The Pagan Arab and Mohammad worshipped the same deities. Of course Mohammad served a non miracle performing pagan god.

"Historians like Vaqqidi have said Allah was actually the chief of the 360 gods being worshipped in Arabia at the time Mohammed rose to prominence. Ibn Al-Kalbi gave 27 names of pre-Islamic deities...Interestingly, not many Muslims want to accept that Allah was already being worshipped at the Ka'ba in Mecca by Arab pagans before Mohammed came. Some Muslims become angry when they are confronted with this fact. But history is not on their side. Pre-Islamic literature has proved this" (G. J. O. Moshay, Who Is This Allah?, Dorchester House, Bucks, UK, 1994, pg. 134, emphasis added)

[Walks_in_islam]

The only point you have made is the same one I did. Mohammed and his followers tore down every idol and reference to every idol at the Kabaa then proclaimed it the place dedicated to the worship of the God of Abraham for all time. You have given a long and colorful (though boring) history of pre-islamic days and pagan practices from over 1600 years ago. Thank you. What you need to do is find one of your online news articles that specifically say that the same God of Abraham, Noah, Lot, Moses, Jacob, and the many other messengers specifically listed and taught from in both the Quran and the Bible is somehow a different God since YOU discovered news articles on the internet that say otherwise. Remember, the teachings, lessons, and stories from the Bible and Quran have common threads and the original prophets are referenced in both. So what you need to do is find someone else's work that you can cut and paste that can clearly explain how the God of Abraham who the Quran states is the One God above all else has become another God in the internet "news article e-world". Your bible is 'powerful'. Use even your Bible to prove the Quran is a false message. Me? I say you cannot. I tried the same thing from your side of that fence and you are no me (laughing).

You have not used the actual words and teachings of Islam and relying on the commentary that someone else wrote (although it works nicely to help "interpret the real meaning of the bible" for you) does not pack the same punch as taking actual words (hadiths or surah's) and making your own points with the words themselves.

Originally Posted by coadie

The Arabs had tribal gods in which they worshipped. Every tribe had their own God. "The Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born was particularly devoted to ALLAH..." (Islamic Invasion, Morey, p.51, emphasis mine). Before Muhammad was EVER BORN, his tribe worshipped Allah, and he was the CHIEF GOD OF MECCA: "Its been pointed out that Mecca was in the control of the Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born" (ibid., pp.39-40). Since they were in control of Mecca, it was only right that their God was chief of the Kaaba in Mecca.

"In pre-Islamic days, called the Days of Ignorance, the religious background of the Arabs was pagan, and basically animistic. Through wells, trees, stones, caves, springs, and other natural objects man could make contact with the deity... At Mekka, Allah was the chief of the gods and THE SPECIAL DEITY OF THE QURAISH, THE PROPHET'S TRIBE. Allah had three daughters: " (Van Ess, John, Meet the Arab, New York, 1943, p. 29)

Are you sill claiming Mohammad "diiscovered " allah and his parents were pagans? The Pagan Arab and Mohammad worshipped the same deities. Of course Mohammad served a non miracle performing pagan god.

"Historians like Vaqqidi have said Allah was actually the chief of the 360 gods being worshipped in Arabia at the time Mohammed rose to prominence. Ibn Al-Kalbi gave 27 names of pre-Islamic deities...Interestingly, not many Muslims want to accept that Allah was already being worshipped at the Ka'ba in Mecca by Arab pagans before Mohammed came. Some Muslims become angry when they are confronted with this fact. But history is not on their side. Pre-Islamic literature has proved this" (G. J. O. Moshay, Who Is This Allah?, Dorchester House, Bucks, UK, 1994, pg. 134, emphasis added)

[oletime]

i see wii /darkness crawled back out in the open, glad i got him on ignore . i love ignore . thanks admin.!

[coadie]

Originally Posted by oletime

i see wii /darkness crawled back out in the open, glad i got him on ignore . i love ignore . thanks admin.!

I am laying the foundation from the bible regarding the prophesy of the coming of the false shepherd by name called Mohammad. Gods word spells out Mohammad coming. It is interesting prophesy and leaves the Muslims jolted and aggitated.The Quran also claims that, "The revelation of this book is from God, The exalted in power, full of wisdom. It is we who have revealed the book to thee in truth" (sura 39:1-2).

Muslim commentators say that the Quran is the final revelation from God (see for more details, Geisler's book, Answering Islam, p.179-80).

Muhammad also makes the claim that, "Can they not consider the Koran? Were it from any other than God, they would surely have found in it many contradictions" (sura 4:84).

So according to the Quran, if there is contradictions in this book, then IT IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD!

Muhammad just helped us dig the grave for the Quran. THE QURAN IS LOADED WITH CONTRADICTIONS!

Our scripture says that if we catch a prophet with error, he is to be rejected.

[Praxeas]

Take this discussion to the theology discussion area.

[Walks_in_islam]

You have not listed a specific contradiction from the Quran yet. Just your silly interpretation that "When they ask you concerning wine and gambling, say 'in them is great sin, and profit for some, but the sin is greater than the profit'" means "it is OK to drink alcohol".

Let me help you with something. This is an example of how to "dig a grave for a book":

Coadie: if there is contradictions in this book, then IT IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD! Our scripture says that if we catch a prophet with error, he is to be rejected um Coadie. What is the chapter and verse for that error thing? Did you just MAKE UP a scripture?

Answer to coadie, who probably should know his scripture before digging this one. There are literally dozens of others Coadie. I just got tired of typing them in.:

David was incited to count the fighting men of Isreal. In 2nd Samuel, God incited him. In I Chronicles, Satan incited him. When they were counted, 2nd Samual says 800,000 and I Chronicles says 1.1 MM.
God threatens David with 7 years of famine in 2nd Samuel, 3 years of famine in I Chronicles.
Ahaziah was 22 when he began his rule in 2nd Kings. He was 42 in 2nd Chronicles.
Jehoiachin was 18 when he began his rule in 2nd Kings, 8 when he began his rule in 2nd Chronicles
David's "chief of mighty men" killed 800 men at one time in 2nd Samuel and 300 men at one time in I Chronicles
David carried the Ark into Jerusalem AFTER defeating the Philistines in 2nd Samuel. Before defeating them in Chronicles 13/14
David captured 1700 horsemen after defeating the King of Zobah in 2nd Samuel, 7000 in I Chronicles.
Solomon had 40,000 stalls for horses in I Kings. 4000 stalls in 2nd Chronicles.
During King Asa's reign Baasha King of Isreal died in the 26th year in I Kings. He was still alive in the 36th year in I chronicles.
Solomon appointed 3600 overseers to build the temple in 2nd chronicles. 3300 in I Kings.
Solomon built a facility containing 2000 baths in I kings. It had 3000 in 2nd chronicles.
Isrealites freed from Babylonian captivity:
Children of Pahrath-Moab:
2812 Ezra. 2818 Nehemiah
Children of Azgad:
1222 Ezra. 2333 Nehemiah
And so on. The total numbers agree in each book as 42,360, but if you add each individual column from each book Ezra adds to 29,818 and Nehemiah adds to 31,089
There were 200 singers in the assembly in Ezra and 245 in the assembly in Nehemiah.
King Abijah's mother's name was Michaiah, daughter of Uriel in one chapter of 2nd chronicles and Maachah daughter of Absalom in another chapter. Absalom however had only one daughter mentioned whose name was Tamar in 2nd Samuel.
Joshua and the Isrealites captured Jerusalem in Joshua 10 and did not capture it in Joshua 15.
Father of Joseph, husband of Mary was Jacob in Matthew and Heli in Luke
Jesus descended from Solomon in Matthew and from Nathan in Luke
The father of Shealtiel was Jechoniah in Matthew and Neri in Luke
Abiud son of Zerubbabel was the anscestor of Jesus in Matthew and Rhesa son of Zerubbabel in Luke. Neither are mentioned as sons of Zerubbabel in the list in I Chronicles.
Father of Uzziah was Joram in Matthew and Amaziah in 2nd Chronicles
Father of Jechoniah was Josiah in Matthew and Jeholakim in I Chronicles
The angel stated that Jesus would inherit the throne of David in Luke. But Matthew says he is a descendent of Jehoiakim and I Chronicles says "and Jehoiaikim was cursed by god so that none of his descendents can sit upon David's throne" Oops.
Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a colt in Mark and Luke and a colt/donkey in Matthew
Simon Peter found out that Jesus was Christ from a heavenly revelation in Matthew, but his brother Andrew told him in John.
Jesus met Simon and Andrew by the Sea of Galilee in Matthew and on the banks of the Jordan in John
Jairus' daughter was dead when he met Jesus in Matthew but not dead / at the point of death in Mark
The disciples were allowed to keep a staff on their journeys in Mark. They were not allowed in Matthew and Luke
Herod thought that Jesus was John the Baptist in Matthew and Mark. He did not in Luke.
John the Baptist recognized Jesus in John. He did not recognize him in Matthew.
Jesus cleansed the temple the day he entered Jerusalem in Matthew. He spent the night in Bethany and cleansed it the next day in Mark
Judas kissed Jesus in Matthew. He did not in John
The curtain in the temple was rent after Jesus died in Matthew and Mark. but rent before Jesus died in Luke.
Both thieves mocked Jesus in Mark. One mocked, one defended in Luke
Jesus ascended to paradise on the day of crucifixion in Luke. He said to Mary he has not yet ascended (two days later) in John
The apostle Paul and companions on the road to Damascus:
All heard the voice in Acts 9. Not all heard the voice in Acts 22
The companions fell to the ground in Acts 26. They did not in Acts 9
The voice spelled out Paul's duties in Acts 26. The voice told him to go to Damascus in Acts 9.

Here are some more:

Mark 15: crucified on the 3rd hour. John 19: sixth hour, not crucified yet
Matt, Luke, Mark - Simon compelled to bear the cross. John, not compelled, Jesus bore his own cross
Matt - Judas hanged himself. Acts, Judas launched himself from a cliff and his bowels gushed out
John - visitors to Jesus' grave: Mary Magdalene only. (2) Mary's in Matt. (2) Mary's and a Joanna in Luke. (2) Mary's and another name in Mark
At Jesus's grave: 1 women/2 angels (John). 2 women/1 angel (Matt). 3 women/2 men Luke. (3) women 1 man Mark
Luke - 2 mary's and a joanna told the 11 apostles what they saw. Mark (2) mary's and someone else did not tell anyone because they were afraid to

Originally Posted by coadie

I am laying the foundation from the bible regarding the prophesy of the coming of the false shepherd by name called Mohammad. Gods word spells out Mohammad coming. It is interesting prophesy and leaves the Muslims jolted and aggitated.The Quran also claims that, "The revelation of this book is from God, The exalted in power, full of wisdom. It is we who have revealed the book to thee in truth" (sura 39:1-2).

Muslim commentators say that the Quran is the final revelation from God (see for more details, Geisler's book, Answering Islam, p.179-80).

Muhammad also makes the claim that, "Can they not consider the Koran? Were it from any other than God, they would surely have found in it many contradictions" (sura 4:84).

So according to the Quran, if there is contradictions in this book, then IT IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD!

Muhammad just helped us dig the grave for the Quran. THE QURAN IS LOADED WITH CONTRADICTIONS!

Our scripture says that if we catch a prophet with error, he is to be rejected.

[Walks_in_islam]

Hey dude I am answering posts. I did not specifically take this discussion in this direction.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Take this discussion to the theology discussion area.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Hey dude I am answering posts. I did not specifically take this discussion in this direction.

No, listen dude. I am telling ALL of you to take the Islamic discussions to the Islamic discussion board unless it has something to do with politics. Got it dude?

[Walks_in_islam]

Good advice dude. Does that mean anything I comment on anywhere should not be allowed to become a "discussion on islam?" Sounds great. Now go ye out and enforce it.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No, listen dude. I am telling ALL of you to take the Islamic discussions to the Islamic discussion board unless it has something to do with politics. Got it dude?

[TJJJ]

Just curious Islam,


What time is it where you are at?