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  #21  
Old 09-29-2015, 12:42 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Jeb Bush-- I Couldn't Make This Up Myself!

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Originalist,

The subject of this thread is how the GOP uses a subtle form of racism to win votes. They do this at the expense of black voters. They do this often. They have been doing this since the 1980's. Jeb wasn't the first to do this.

So I explained to you how it doesn't make sense to make the ostracizing of an entire race of people part of your political campaign to win more votes by bringing up another racial stereotype that has some semblance of statistics to back up the stereotype-- but of course it is foolish to make it a political talking point to back handedly or point blank talk about the middle-aged white males as if they are all guilty of the crimes I mentioned.

I acknowledged that it is foolish to do that. What I would like is for you to acknowledge that it is indeed foolish for the GOP to do the same thing, election cycle after election cycle.



In fact, the crimes I mentioned that are dominated by the middle-aged white male, are not dominated by middle-aged white males simply because there are more middle-aged white males. It really isn't that simple at all and I hope you realize that.
"Racism" probably is not the word I would use. That denotes racial supremacy. Perhaps there are some "bigoted" remarks that should not be made.

In the final analysis, we must find a way to move past race in this country. I still think 90% of all Americans are not racist nor dwell on their own ethnicity. But the media simply will not let it go.
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  #22  
Old 09-29-2015, 12:50 PM
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Re: Jeb Bush-- I Couldn't Make This Up Myself!

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
"Racism" probably is not the word I would use. That denotes racial supremacy. Perhaps there are some "bigoted" remarks that should not be made.
These types of bigoted remarks remain to be money-makers for the GOP.

Some Democrats still throw in victimization and racism charges at the GOP when campaigning, but the GOP gives THOSE DEMOCRATS FUEL EVERY ELECTION CYCLE LIKE THE JEB BUSH STATEMENT AND THE PEOPLE WHO EAT THOSE STATEMENTS UP.

The GOP says they want to attract minorities, but they ostracize blacks, repeatedly.

Unfortunately, the Democrats DOMINATE on winning the hearts of people as individuals while the GOP sets up a racist us vs. them scenario, over and over and over.

I am glad you are beginning to see what I have been talking about.
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  #23  
Old 09-29-2015, 12:55 PM
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Re: Jeb Bush-- I Couldn't Make This Up Myself!

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
Let's also talk about the rejection successful blacks often receive within their own community for being "too white".
Yeah, that type of thinking has been poisonous. I don't know how it started-- don't think it is a Democrat-driven phenomenon as much as it is a sub-culture driven phenomenon with all sorts of other issues at play.

The educated black that moves away from their old impoverished community...
The educated black that acts like they are "better" because of their accomplishments...
The uneducated black that is jealous...
The entertainment industry that glorifies ignorance...

None of these are issues that I can pinpoint on the Democrats.
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  #24  
Old 09-29-2015, 03:20 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Jeb Bush-- I Couldn't Make This Up Myself!

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Yeah, that type of thinking has been poisonous. I don't know how it started-- don't think it is a Democrat-driven phenomenon as much as it is a sub-culture driven phenomenon with all sorts of other issues at play.

The educated black that moves away from their old impoverished community...
The educated black that acts like they are "better" because of their accomplishments...
The uneducated black that is jealous...
The entertainment industry that glorifies ignorance...

None of these are issues that I can pinpoint on the Democrats.
So much potential being lost!
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  #25  
Old 09-29-2015, 07:32 PM
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Re: Jeb Bush-- I Couldn't Make This Up Myself!

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
So much potential being lost!
It is very depressing for me to think about because I honestly feel like I should be doing something about it. I feel a certain civic responsibility, but it's deeper than that, but not a religious calling or anything like that.

I have my own life to live and frankly, I don't have the time to do all that I want to do for every person (black, white, or other) seemingly trapped in bad circumstances. I can't help every body. I used to volunteer with inner city youth and will look into it again once I feel a bit more settled here in Cleveland.

There are a lot of people born into great disadvantage, not just blacks-- but there is history and other factors that play into things for American blacks that are not true for others. That is reality.

This is particularly about American blacks who are born into great disadvantage. While I am convinced that all American blacks will still experience racism in 21st century America, it's usually not the same kind of crippling racism that my Dad experienced as a young husband and father.

I also want to note that not all blacks are born into great disadvantage.

However, there are American blacks who are born into great disadvantage. Poverty is insidious in its disease process also affects the critical thinking and even the world view of the impoverished. Poor people sometimes make impulsive decisions, as well as the not poor, the middle class, the rich.

Unfortunately, when poor people make impulsive decisions, those decisions are usually bad decisions and those bad decisions hurt the poor more than it hurts others. Sometimes, those bad decisions include breaking the law-- rich people and middle class people have the resources at their disposal to often mitigate their bad decisions. The impoverished do not. Still there is hardly any way to defend anyone, rich or poor, black, white, or green, who KNOWINGLY make bad decisions, regardless of the logic or illogic that affects the critical thinking of the poor.

No one SHOULD GO TO JAIL for weed-- but everyone knows that as of right now, weed is still illegal in most places. Yet a poor black guy decides to sell it anyway. He makes this decision, knowing that he is prone to more scrutiny because so many other poor black males have gone this route before him. It didn't work for them, but he needs to make money and the need is real, so HE DECIDES that he can take this route and not get caught. He knows he will face more scrutiny, but he makes this doomed decision anyway. He's black, he's poor, he's already in a bad situation, the pressure for money is heavy and in that moment he doesn't realize all that he is about to lose.

He takes this route and, as usual, he gets caught. So now, you are a poor, black male with a criminal record. Rich people and even middle class people can overcome this obstacle with relative ease, but he is poor, black, male and now he has a criminal record. His options, at this point, are limited in this great land of opportunity. His situation is not impossible, but he is poor. His critical thinking and world view is skewed by his poverty. In that moment, he realizes that many people in his shoes will more than likely be permanently poor and he decides the only way he can make money is to become a repeat lawbreaker, further sealing his economic doom.

He got caught the first time, but the next time he'll be ahead of the game... It's the chronic misuse of free will.

Lots of teenagers have sex. It is sin and they do it anyway. I think most teenagers use protection. Some don't and then they get pregnant and some even get pregnant again and again. They know they should use protection, but haven't you seen it repeated, over and over again-- the chronic bad decisions that poor people make? We are talking about American blacks, but this phenomenon is repeated among the poor in America of all races.

You get involved in a gang. Say what you want, these informal organizations fill voids in people lives. Everyone wants to belong, be a part of something. Everyone needs a friend, maybe even a father figure. But everyone knows you shouldn't join a gang and they KNOW that people get framed, maimed and killed and many go to jail but people do it anyway!


Matthew 25:29
Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.



Yes, there are historical wrongs and injustices that contribute to the overall existence of these bad situations for American blacks. Not everything is equal. But everything in America is equal enough today so that every person can make good decisions, right decisions and not be impoverished, a criminal, a statistic.

What can be done to help the poor in their chronic misuse of free will?

Sometimes, God will overrule the effects of a person's misuse of their own free will but He definitely isn't obligated to do that.

Like my Dad says, "You make your bed hard, you lay hard."
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Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 09-29-2015 at 07:40 PM.
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  #26  
Old 09-29-2015, 07:35 PM
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Re: Jeb Bush-- I Couldn't Make This Up Myself!

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
At a campaign event in South Carolina on Thursday, Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush was asked how he planned to include black people in his campaign and get them to vote for him.

Bush responded, “Our message is one of hope and aspiration.” But he didn’t stop there. He continued: “It isn’t one of division and get in line and we’ll take care of you with free stuff. Our message is one that is uplifting — that says you can achieve earned success.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/28/op...olks.html?_r=0


There will be some who will read this and seriously wonder, "Well what's wrong with this? I don't understand."

smh

It would be comical if so many other GOP'ers were not in denial.
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Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
So it's offensive that he believes blacks want to have earned success?

It's offensive that he believes blacks are tired of division and of being told to get in line so that they will be taken care of with free stuff?



I guess people will always find offense where they want to find offense.
Hmmm...could it be old Jeb was reflecting on the Democratic party and not blacks by implying they offer free stuff?
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  #27  
Old 09-29-2015, 07:43 PM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: Jeb Bush-- I Couldn't Make This Up Myself!

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Hmmm...could it be old Jeb was reflecting on the Democratic party and not blacks by implying they offer free stuff?
Given the frequency that Republicans have used blacks as a scapegoat and way to score political points with their base, I think he meant exactly what he said.

He played to the GOP's dark side, like many other Republican politicians before him.
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Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 09-29-2015 at 07:45 PM.
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  #28  
Old 09-29-2015, 08:02 PM
Nitehawk013 Nitehawk013 is offline
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Re: Jeb Bush-- I Couldn't Make This Up Myself!

Or maybe he was simply acknowledging a problem that you refuse to be honest about.

While the overall number of whites on some form of assistance is higher than minorities, the percentages are ridiculously disproportionate towards blacks. The percentage of blacks on welfare or assistance compared to whites is way out of balance. The percentage of blacks involved in violent crime compared to whites...again...way out of line. The percentage of blacks killing other blacks compared to whites? Not even worth mentioning. Its not even in the same zip code. The percentage of black fathers running out on the mothers of their children compared to whites? Again...through the roof.

There is a HUGE and offensive problem in the black community that no one is even allowed to talk about without people like YOU JD crying and whining "Oh that's racist". You are the problem. Not people who see the issue and dare talk about it.

I detest Jeb, but he is right. We need to quit subsidizing irresponsible behavior with constant hand outs no matter what color the offenders skin is.
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  #29  
Old 09-29-2015, 09:40 PM
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Re: Jeb Bush-- I Couldn't Make This Up Myself!

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Given the frequency that Republicans have used blacks as a scapegoat and way to score political points with their base, I think he meant exactly what he said.

He played to the GOP's dark side, like many other Republican politicians before him.
Isn't that what Liberals do? Use blacks/race for political points? As soon as you label a white conservative "racist" it's all over. It's like crying rape when there was no rape. The accused can never shake the stigma.

If he wanted to play that game, why not play it with immigration?

See...just about anything a white man says, especially a Republican, it will be used no matter his intent.

Jeb does not strike me as the kind that panders to a certain group like that...in fact that is probably why he lags behind in the polls
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #30  
Old 09-30-2015, 01:26 AM
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Re: Jeb Bush-- I Couldn't Make This Up Myself!

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Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
So it's offensive that he believes blacks want to have earned success?

It's offensive that he believes blacks are tired of division and of being told to get in line so that they will be taken care of with free stuff?



I guess people will always find offense where they want to find offense.
Jfrog, given the even recent history of GOP'ers using blacks as scapegoats, I am not willing to give Jeb a pass on this. He isn't the first GOP politician in recent history to imply what he did.
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