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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #21  
Old 04-15-2014, 05:35 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Thoughts on Yahoah???

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
My interest goes back to the early 1980's. It always rang true to me that since all these things happened in a Hebrew context those involved had Hebrew names.

My understanding is that according to the Massorite Text if we go by the vowel points it would read Yehovah. Then other "experts" say the v should be sounded as a w rendering it more like Yehowah or "Yehoah". And yes I have noticed it written or spoken as such various times on the net.

Then of course comes the next group of experts to say the Massorites deliberately put the vowels that belong to Adonai into YHWH to prompt the reader to say "Adonai" instead of the name.

I DO feel it is important as an issue but certainly not to the point of it being essential to salvation.

Brother Michael, are you saying using any of these names in the place(in replacement of) of the name Jesus?... I am not clear if you are just using other names of Jehovah regarding the O.T. name of God. If you could clarify, I may be able to give my opinion. Thanks bro.
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  #22  
Old 04-15-2014, 05:42 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Thoughts on Yahoah???

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Originally Posted by Sean View Post
Brother Michael, are you saying using any of these names in the place(in replacement of) of the name Jesus?... I am not clear if you are just using other names of Jehovah regarding the O.T. name of God. If you could clarify, I may be able to give my opinion. Thanks bro.
I generally call Jesus "Yeshuah" or "Yeshua" they have the same sound. I tell no one they must call Yeshua by his Hebrew name. If they do that is a good thing. If one says its essential to salvation I would disagree.

I began baptizing in the Hebrew name in 1983. Nothing wrong with that. Why would one want to contend against the fact the Hebrew Messiah had a Hebrew name?
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  #23  
Old 04-15-2014, 06:48 PM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: Thoughts on Yahoah???

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
I generally call Jesus "Yeshuah" or "Yeshua" they have the same sound. I tell no one they must call Yeshua by his Hebrew name. If they do that is a good thing. If one says its essential to salvation I would disagree.

I began baptizing in the Hebrew name in 1983. Nothing wrong with that. Why would one want to contend against the fact the Hebrew Messiah had a Hebrew name?
what is your formula for baptism? just out of curiosity.

Is it
I baptize you or I immerse you or I mikvah you
in the name of
Adonai Yeshua hamashia or Yeshua hamashia or Yeshua
or some other variation?
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  #24  
Old 04-15-2014, 08:21 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Thoughts on Yahoah???

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
I generally call Jesus "Yeshuah" or "Yeshua" they have the same sound. I tell no one they must call Yeshua by his Hebrew name. If they do that is a good thing. If one says its essential to salvation I would disagree.

I began baptizing in the Hebrew name in 1983. Nothing wrong with that. Why would one want to contend against the fact the Hebrew Messiah had a Hebrew name?



If you brothers baptize that way, do you pray for healings, signs and wonders, exorcisms in the name Yeshua also?... Are you seeing results?
I am not criticizing. I actually would like to know. It never crossed my mind in the debates I was in last year to ask. Thank you Bro. Michael.
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  #25  
Old 04-15-2014, 08:54 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Thoughts on Yahoah???

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Originally Posted by Sean View Post
If you brothers baptize that way, do you pray for healings, signs and wonders, exorcisms in the name Yeshua also?... Are you seeing results?
I am not criticizing. I actually would like to know. It never crossed my mind in the debates I was in last year to ask. Thank you Bro. Michael.
I have cast out demons in Yeshua's name.
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  #26  
Old 04-15-2014, 08:57 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Thoughts on Yahoah???

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Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
what is your formula for baptism? just out of curiosity.

Is it
I baptize you or I immerse you or I mikvah you
in the name of
Adonai Yeshua hamashia or Yeshua hamashia or Yeshua
or some other variation?
Most always over the years in the name of "Yeshua The Messiah". I have baptized a few in the name of Jesus Christ.
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  #27  
Old 04-15-2014, 10:15 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Thoughts on Yahoah???

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
I have cast out demons in Yeshua's name.

Ok brother, if it works for you I will leave it up to you. I just hope you read my previous threads about the non existent Hebrew New Testament. I am concerned only about making sure I am using the Name of the messiah as close as possible to the original New Testament words. Maybe its ok, I have no idea...The Greek works better in my conscience for me. Iesous sounds more like Jesus. Thanks for your input bro. I will leave it at that...My problem is I am a Gentile and my (debate) friends and (some ministers) are being "pretend" Jews. I cant mimic that. God never called me to get into that. God Bless, thanks again.

Last edited by Sean; 04-15-2014 at 10:19 PM.
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  #28  
Old 04-16-2014, 03:03 AM
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votivesoul votivesoul is offline
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Re: Thoughts on Yahoah???

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Originally Posted by Sean View Post
My point brothers is that the New Testament was not written in Hebrew(Aramaic is not Hebrew at all)...There are folks trying to claim it was, and tell us our Greek translations are full of errors and cannot be trusted. They tell us the Hebrew N.T.(that doesnt exist) is the only accurate source we have. The N.T. they use is transliterated from Greek and think it is from original Hebrew(they are told). They have been snookered by this group. Even the Old Testament was (transliterated) into Greek(Septuagint)in the days before Christ because everyone spoke Greek in the times of Christ. There are NO ancient (Hebrew) New Testament manuscripts in the world today. If they actually had at least one, they would have an argument.

I am not debating anyone but I did my research last year on this subject. I spent a lot of time debating some friends I care about that fell into this stuff. They went from running the aisles(in Pentecostal churches) to wearing strange hats and garments keeping O.T. feast days, Sabbaths, Blowing rams horns, long flowing beards(trying to look like rabbis) and trying to Keep the Law of Moses the best they can(they dont say Jesus anymore, they call Him Yashua)which they claim comes from the "Hebrew" N.T.. Every time I showed them their errors in the N.T., they would tell me the N.T. could not be trusted because our Bible is written in Hebrew. They completely excused Galatians as translator errors. They even said "Paul was wrong" when I backed them into a corner. This is just a warning to my brothers....do not try to insert "Hebrew" meanings into the New Testament...it doesnt exist.

Thanks guys for hearing me out. There is a "fascination" these days even with High Ranking ministers to get more "Jewish" in our worship. I believe this has opened the door to this trend.
These are all valid concerns. But note, no one here is doing or even advocating such.

This isn't really about anything in the New Testament at all, except for how it relates back to the name of God in the Old Testament.

But I will say this:

Although we only have Greek manuscripts, and even if none of the New Testament was never first written in Hebrew (a point I am willing to concede), we can still use some common sense.

In an Aramaic speaking region like the Galiyl (i.e. Galilee), where an angel named G'vri-EL (i.e. Gabriel) visited a young virgen named Miryiam (i.e. Mary) espoused to a man named Yusef (i.e. Joseph) we might readily and correctly assume that when this malakh elohim spoke to her in what is probably the only language she was fully capable of speaking, which would have been her native tongue of Aramaic, he in fact did so.

Thus, though all the manuscript evidence points to a Greek version of the name Jesus (i.e. Iesous), we can nonetheless admit that the angel told her and her fiance to name the child Yeshua.

And undoubtedly, when they took the Moschiach to be circumcised on the 8th day according to Jewish law and custom, when asked the name of the child, it would be an injustice to assume, that in that present moment, Miryiam and Yusef uttered the Greek version of His name.

Will we ever know for sure? Not this side of heaven. But it does no damage to the Lord to say in Hebrew, His name is Yehoshua and in Aramaic, it is Yeshua; that both His mother and step-father spoke Aramaic, that the angel who visited them therefore spoke to them in a language they could understand, and onward.

The name of Jesus isn't denigrated to a lesser value, any more than John is less of a name than Juan, Sean, Jean, Ivan, or Yochanan. It's all the same name.
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Last edited by votivesoul; 04-16-2014 at 03:25 AM.
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  #29  
Old 04-16-2014, 03:14 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Yahoah???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
If you brothers baptize that way, do you pray for healings, signs and wonders, exorcisms in the name Yeshua also?... Are you seeing results?
I am not criticizing. I actually would like to know. It never crossed my mind in the debates I was in last year to ask. Thank you Bro. Michael.
When I was leading the Spanish ministry at my local assembly, I immersed native Spanish speakers using the following phraseology:

"Te/Se bautizo en el nombre de Jesucristo para el perdon de tus/sus pecados".

I have seen people receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit as I laid hands on them and prayed for them in the Spanish version of the name of Jesus, too.
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  #30  
Old 04-16-2014, 03:22 AM
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Re: Thoughts on Yahoah???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
My interest goes back to the early 1980's. It always rang true to me that since all these things happened in a Hebrew context those involved had Hebrew names.

My understanding is that according to the Massorite Text if we go by the vowel points it would read Yehovah. Then other "experts" say the v should be sounded as a w rendering it more like Yehowah or "Yehoah". And yes I have noticed it written or spoken as such various times on the net.

Then of course comes the next group of experts to say the Massorites deliberately put the vowels that belong to Adonai into YHWH to prompt the reader to say "Adonai" instead of the name.

I DO feel it is important as an issue but certainly not to the point of it being essential to salvation.
I have seen the same thing and am of the same mind.

I've often wondered why the God who said "this is my name forever" allowed the pronunciation of the name to be lost.

I know humans have free will and if a culture of people like the ancient Jews stopped verbalizing the Name, then I can see how God would allow the freedom of that will to endure unviolated even to the point of making the exact saying of His Name extinct.

But then, when I look at the basic premise of the language itself, apart from any theological consideration or ramification, it appears the summation provided in the original post is as valid as they come. Final? Can't say for sure.

I was recently speaking with a JW, who told me that, although Jehova is pretty much settled upon, they don't think it's a perfect pronunciation either. His comments were not organizational; merely personal. But what he said was this:

Just as a loving father wouldn't get mad at his kids if they for some reason weren't able to perfectly speak his name, so too does God not get mad that we can't say His name perfectly, even though we try.

I don't know if that's official, or just his subjective understanding, but I thought it was interesting. A nice little insight for a rainy day.
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