Moses Had The Holy Spirit

[sbo1971]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

I what way is a person in any way "redemeed," without the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit which makes us New Creations. We are commanded by Jesus to receive the Holy Spirit (Jn 20:22). It is the entrance of the Spirit that brings about our regeneration.

Ezek 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Eze_36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze_36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Eze_18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

All of these verses were fulfilled in Acts 2, on the Day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit was poured out as prophesied by the Lord in Joel.
Joe_2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe_2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

God says He will pour out HIS Spirit. The Bible makes it clear that there is only ONE Spirit. Paul says it is the Spirit of God/Christ.

Rom_8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

There is only one possible conclusion to arrive at: Jesus IS the One True and Living God manifest in the flesh, and in the absence of the indwelling Spirit of Christ/God, we remain dead in trespasses and sin.

Once again scripture speaks for itself, too bad people try to interpret the Bible to say what they want.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by sbo1971

Once again scripture speaks for itself, too bad people try to interpret the Bible to say what they want.

True. Some will attempt to make the bible say that one is redeemed by something other than the blood of the Lamb of God.

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by seekerman

There is only one thing which redeems and that's the blood of the Lamb of God. Only the blood. Nothing but the blood.

There are those suggesting that one must 'get' the Holy Ghost to be saved, but this Holy Ghost wasn't available before the day of Pentecost. The conclusion then is that the Old Testament saints, to whom the Holy Ghost wasn't available, aren't saved. Unless they 'got' the Holy Ghost after they died which presents quite a sticky wicket indeed.

Those who suggest that one must "get" the Holy Ghost, are merely stating the truth of scripture.

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of Christ. Jesus is the comforter. He is the Spirit of God. Until you receive His Spirit, you are not saved. Scripture can't make it any plainer.

As for the Old Testament Saints? The OT saints were saved the same way the New Testament saints were/are saved, by faith.

For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness." 4Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. 5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness, 6just as David also speaks of the blessing upon the man to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works: 7"Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, and whose sins have been covered. 8"Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account" (Rom. 4:3-8).

As you can see, the Bible tells us that Abraham was justified by faith (see Rom. 5:1 and Eph. 2:8-9). That is, his faith is reckoned as righteousness, v. 4 above. They were saved by faith in the Messiah in whom they were trusting. Only, for them it was a trust in the future Messiah. They knew He was coming as had been prophesied.

Also, the Holy Spirit was there in the OT times the same as the NT times. Consider Psalm 51:11, "Do not cast me away from Thy presence, And do not take Thy Holy Spirit from me."

God did not change how He saved people in the New Testament. It has always been by faith. In the case of the OT people, they looked ahead in time to the Messiah. We look back to Him and see the cross.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

Those who suggest that one must "get" the Holy Ghost, are merely stating the truth of scripture.

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of Christ. Jesus is the comforter. He is the Spirit of God. Until you receive His Spirit, you are not saved. Scripture can't make it any plainer.

As for the Old Testament Saints? The OT saints were saved the same way the New Testament saints were/are saved, by faith.

For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness." 4Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. 5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness, 6just as David also speaks of the blessing upon the man to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works: 7"Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, and whose sins have been covered. 8"Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account" (Rom. 4:3-8).

As you can see, the Bible tells us that Abraham was justified by faith (see Rom. 5:1 and Eph. 2:8-9). That is, his faith is reckoned as righteousness, v. 4 above. They were saved by faith in the Messiah in whom they were trusting. Only, for them it was a trust in the future Messiah. They knew He was coming as had been prophesied.

Also, the Holy Spirit was there in the OT times the same as the NT times. Consider Psalm 51:11, "Do not cast me away from Thy presence, And do not take Thy Holy Spirit from me."

God did not change how He saved people in the New Testament. It has always been by faith. In the case of the OT people, they looked ahead in time to the Messiah. We look back to Him and see the cross.

The Old Testament saints apparently didn't 'have' the Holy Spirit though, for it was not given yet. On one hand you seem to be suggesting that one must 'have' the Holy Ghost but on the other hand suggesting the Holy Ghost wasn't given until after the Old Testament epoch was over. If it's necessary to 'have' the Holy Ghost for redemption, how could the OT saints be redeemed without the Holy Ghost? To use your earlier phrase, "it's hard to have something which hasn't been given yet".

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by seekerman

The Old Testament saints apparently didn't 'have' the Holy Spirit though, for it was not given yet. On one hand you seem to be suggesting that one must 'have' the Holy Ghost but on the other hand suggesting the Holy Ghost wasn't given until after the Old Testament epoch was over. If it's necessary to 'have' the Holy Ghost for redemption, how could the OT saints be redeemed without the Holy Ghost? To use your earlier phrase, "it's hard to have something which hasn't been given yet".

Once again, Scripture itself provides the answer. The Spirit was "with" them but not "in" them. That's the difference between the two Covenants. Jesus, in speaking to the Old Testament Saints, more popularly known as His disciples, explains it clearly:

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

He was with them but shortly, would be IN them. A new day was dawning and it changed things forever. Better Covenant/Better Promises!
(Heb 8:6). The better promise was the "promise of the Father," the indwelling of His Spirit.

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the New Birth. God's Spirit recreating our spirit, thus making all things new!

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Simple really!

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

Once again, Scripture itself provides the answer. The Spirit was "with" them but not "in" them. That's the difference between the two Covenants. Jesus, in speaking to the Old Testament Saints, more popularly known as His disciples, explains it clearly:

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

He was with them but shortly, would be IN them. A new day was dawning and it changed things forever. Better Covenant/Better Promises!
(Heb 8:6). The better promise was the "promise of the Father," the indwelling of His Spirit.

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the New Birth. God's Spirit recreating our spirit, thus making all things new!

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Simple really!

Scripture says that the Holy Ghost had not yet been given and as you said, "it's hard to have something which hadn't been given yet". Now, had the Holy Ghost been given in OT or had it not been given?

[sbo1971]

Do we still follow the law of Moses, are you going to the temple and giving your sacrifice for your sins? No; we live in a different dispensation, one that was shown and exemplified by Christ himself through his own baptism and the preceding symbolism of the Holy Spirit as a dove resting on him. How can you say that we do not need the Holy Ghost when scripture clearly states that we do? I mean really?

[sbo1971]

Up to the Day of Pentecost the Law of Moses defined the way of salvation, Jesus ushered in the New Birth, or as Jesus put it, being born again, you know the conversation he had with Nicodemus about water and Spirit.

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Scripture says that the Holy Ghost had not yet been given and as you said, "it's hard to have something which hadn't been given yet". Now, had the Holy Ghost been given in OT or had it not been given?

There was a very specific operation of the Holy Spirit in the OT times that was clearly distinct and different to that which is available to us today.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

[larrylyates]

Oneness believers acknowledge that the Baptism with, by, of, or in the Holy Spirit is a vital aspect of New Testament salvation (Jn 3:5; Ro 8:1-16; I Cor 12:13; Eph 1:13,14; Titus 3:5). The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the normal and basic New Testament experience with God, the birth of the spirit.
Oneness believers understand the Baptism of the Holy Spirit to be an integral part of receiving Christ. For them it is not an optional, post-conversion experience, nor is it a “second work of grace” or a new encounter with a different member of the trinity. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the normal, basic New Testament experience with God—the birth of the spirit.
This experience then is vital to salvation as shown by the fact that “if any man has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his” (Roman 8:9). This does not refer to some sort of “Christ like attitude” or spirit of meekness, as some teach. It is rather, a direct reference to the Spirit of God, the Holy Ghost which is the Spirit of Christ. This verse alone demonstrates forever that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is essential to salvation.