From Tim Downs.. - Page 3

Sam · #21 04-28-2011, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

...Repentance is not saying a prayer.

not meaning to be contradictory or argumentative but I really believe that if a person sincerely prays what we call the "sinner's prayer," that person is justified/saved/born again.

seguidordejesus · #22 04-28-2011, 11:16 AM

Got to admire his faith, putting a $10,000 option on his Paypal donate button

pelathais · #23 04-28-2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Tim Downs
Top 4 Things that are ABSOLUTES for Great church Growth - (1.) Change your service to Sunday at 2:00 pm (2.) Quit playing the new carnal music (3.) Have daily outreaches (4.) Learn to love and disciple people. WHICH OF THESE FOUR ARE YOU DEAD SET AGAINST CHANGING and you will know why your not reaching your city.

He baptizes and witness to many people.

What to you think?

Carnal Music: I am a Friend of God, Dancing Generation, etc.

his new church plant

www.Atlantahopecenter.com

a related site
www.answeredhere.com

I like Tim on a personal level. He was great with my kids recently. I just don't quite follow the music thing. Abraham was "a friend of God" (Isaiah 41:8, James 2:23, etc). Is that a bad thing?

And... FWIW, onefaith2 - by way of introduction, I am hearing impaired and much of the music just goes right past me anyway.

deltaguitar · #24 04-28-2011, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

not meaning to be contradictory or argumentative but I really believe that if a person sincerely prays what we call the "sinner's prayer," that person is justified/saved/born again.

I do too.

But thousands have prayed those types of prayers that haven't proven to be born again. The prayer itself doesn't save it is the repentance and faith that are signs that regeneration has taken place. I think we are in agreement.

We can't tell when exactly regeneration takes place. One of the reasons I have such a problem with the altar call is that people leave thinking they are saved with no real change of heart. I have seen hundreds follow the three-step formula as well that had no real change of heart.

onefaith2 · #25 04-28-2011, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I do too.

But thousands have prayed those types of prayers that haven't proven to be born again. The prayer itself doesn't save it is the repentance and faith that are signs that regeneration has taken place. I think we are in agreement.

We can't tell when exactly regeneration takes place. One of the reasons I have such a problem with the altar call is that people leave thinking they are saved with no real change of heart. I have seen hundreds follow the three-step formula as well that had no real change of heart.

Do you advocate taking out the altar call altogether and advocate churches not to have groups pray a prayer or groups exhort them to be baptized, etc?

deltaguitar · #26 04-28-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Do you advocate taking out the altar call altogether and advocate churches not to have groups pray a prayer or groups exhort them to be baptized, etc?

Yes.

Although, I am not against praying in groups and I am not against laying hands on people when we pray. I prefer to be in a church that does not do altar calls. The church I am a member of now doesn't do them but there are people at the front who will pray with you and there are many people who stay after service to pray in groups.

Dark Energy · #27 04-28-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Tim Downs
Top 4 Things that are ABSOLUTES for Great church Growth - (1.) Change your service to Sunday at 2:00 pm (2.) Quit playing the new carnal music (3.) Have daily outreaches (4.) Learn to love and disciple people. WHICH OF THESE FOUR ARE YOU DEAD SET AGAINST CHANGING and you will know why your not reaching your city.

He baptizes and witness to many people.

What to you think?

Carnal Music: I am a Friend of God, Dancing Generation, etc.

his new church plant

www.Atlantahopecenter.com

a related site
www.answeredhere.com

How is "I am a friend of God's, He calls me friend" carnal?

Dark Energy · #28 04-28-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

There's a disconnect when people take what works for them in their community and assume that it will work everywhere. The principles of a charitable, approachable, evangelistic, compassionate church can be applied everywhere, but the exact applications will (and should) vary.

I don't see what modern worship music has to do with anything.

There is also a problem with attributing revival with something you did.

For example, he changed service to 2PM, got rid of the new music, did outreach every day and learned to love and discipline people all at the same time. It may just be the outreach every day part is what did it and the rest had no effect whatsoever

onefaith2 · #29 04-28-2011, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Energy

How is "I am a friend of God's, He calls me friend" carnal?

I dunno what Tim would say but he advocates all the old church songs because people relate to them quite a bit better and respond. You may want to ask him.

onefaith2 · #30 04-28-2011, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Energy

There is also a problem with attributing revival with something you did.

For example, he changed service to 2PM, got rid of the new music, did outreach every day and learned to love and discipline people all at the same time. It may just be the outreach every day part is what did it and the rest had no effect whatsoever

No he just started his church.. these are things he learned from about 5 years on the evangelistical field where they posted totals of around 8 thousand people baptized in their revivals.