st.john 5;19

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by SRM

Can we not let Jesus be who He claimed to be?

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Jesus said He is the First and Last, He is God.

[pastorrick1959]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

sorry "pastor" rick, I simply don't take you serious enough to bother answering your nonsense. On most threads here on AFF you pot shot an out of context scripture and never answer a rebuattal. Now your calling people ignorant, despite the fact that your essentially promoting "apostolic gnosticism". Reminds me of someone else who "loved to have the preeminence"

sir i could care less about your opinion .. I NEVER EVER CALLED ANYONE IGNORANT SHOW ME WHERE I DID ... the doctrine is ignorant -which simply means those that believe that are untaught. i need not attack people and degrade them ,most people are a product of their teaching . your opinion of my doctrine is not very impoertant to me either , i just hope some ray of light comes inbetween the cracks to help somone!

i wouldnt want to degrade you or anyone else as you and prax are so willing and eager to do! but its water off the ducks back to me. lord bless ya!

and maybe we could stick to the topic pleasee!

[pastorrick1959]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I love the way you start stuff then get all mad when someone responds

BTW "IN" does not necessarily mean "inside of", as I said before like "in God we trust" means we trust in his person. It does not mean we are inside of Him like he is a box.

Second you totally ignored what I said which is typical.

God was seen of angels, God was received up into glory....now how was that? Please explain that

i didnt start anything to begin with ,, i was speaking aginst a doctrine not persons .. you attacked a personal attack. 2nd i wasnt mad at all? do you understand ,all liars will have their part in the lake of fire. you should have facts when you acuse someone , because if your wrong then your a liar!

god is a spirit ---he is omnipresent ---filling all places at all times //////so how was god received up in to glory? glory many times means honor --god was honored by the works of his son. the sacrifice of his son.

god can reveal hisself to anyone he wishes, however he wishes ,he is god .

whether its a cloud ,fire, revealed in man ,however he chooses.

[pastorrick1959]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Exactly. He can say we are ignorant or we twist and squirm but don't you dare say that to him. Oh then I love how he threatens me...ie "come say that to my face" like he's gonna kick my butt...and he says he is a pastor???

dearest prax get your drawers out of your crack before you explode...

i never called anyone ignorant ,,,

i never threatened you , i love how you make this stuff up. lol..

never said i wanted to kick your butt..

i did say ,, if your gonna make a personal attack on someone ,be man enough,to look them in the eye when you do that ,, my dad taught me that years ago. i wish you no harm and certainly wont cause you any..

then you go to degradeing my pastorship... a new low even for you prax.

i pastor a growing church we have around 80 something members and growing ,,,fixing to build a new church ,, i am sure if we met , you would even like me ..you may never like what i teach at times , but me as a person you proabbly would ,,me as a chrsitian, you would respect if you knew what i am in god .

be careful my friend how you treat others ,,, touch not my annointed and do my prophets no harm ..

now for whatever reason you think , i was bashing you , even though i wasnt ,i ask you and all those watching this to forgive me if it came across like that .

my desire always will be and is that i may attain the fullness of christ in my life. if i differ from someone in doctrine or just petty things ,that we do different , i dont let it bother me ,,i am confident in who and what i am in god .

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

so nice to find other who can understand what they read,,,dont have to twist and sqirm scriptures around to make something, something, that isnt something lol. that dual nature thing is a jeckle and hyde god stuff ,, very ignorant!

You said, above that it's nice to find others who an understand what they read...ignorant is the opposite of someone that can understand what they read. You just implied those that disagree with you don't understand what they read, ie,they are ignorant. Then you implied we twist and squirm scriptures, then you lied about what we believe by resorting to an absurd or silly example, then you said "very ignorant"...well we must be very ignorant to believe an ignorant doctrine eh?

Yeah I know, just like the last several times you will still claim innocence.

So what if I just not call you ignorant but say you're words are ignorant? Is that ok?

Ignorant is usually a word applied to a person. It means lacking understanding. If someone builds a car that does not run, you don't say the car is ignorant. You say the person that built it is. That is what your post is implying no matter how you try to spin it

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

god is a spirit ---he is omnipresent ---filling all places at all times //////so how was god received up in to glory? glory many times means honor --god was honored by the works of his son. the sacrifice of his son.

god can reveal hisself to anyone he wishes, however he wishes ,he is god .

whether its a cloud ,fire, revealed in man ,however he chooses.

It doesn't say "God received glory". It says God was received UP INTO glory
And you say we twist scriptures? You can't just take it as it is written?

God was vindicated in the Spirit
God was seen of angels? What does that mean? What does that have to do with being manifested in flesh? Notice all these follow being manifested in the flesh first?

First he was manifested in flesh. Then HE was vindicated in the Spirit. God was seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations (Paul said he preached Jesus crucified), believed on in the world (who ever believes in Jesus has everlasting life) and God was taken up into glory.

Same greek word used in Acts 1:2
Act 1:2 until the day when he was taken up, after he had given commands through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen.

1Ti 3:16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

Same word, How was God taken up? to where? After being manifested in flesh

[pastorrick1959]

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

what say ye to this?

this was the subject at hand ,i;ll just brush this other stuff aside ...

there is a son , there is a father , the son never one place claims to be god NOT ONE!

the son is not the fahter and son , but he is the son of god! when the word OF is added ,,that means it came from him. not is him,. just simple english !

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

this was the subject at hand ,i;ll just brush this other stuff aside ...

there is a son , there is a father , the son never one place claims to be god NOT ONE!

Is 44:6 Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I [am] the first, and I [am] the last, and beside me there is no God.

Jehovah is the First and the Last

Rev 1
12 And I turned back to see the voice which spoke with me; and having turned, I saw seven golden lamps,
13and in the midst of the [seven] lamps [one] like [the] Son of man, clothed with a garment reaching to the feet, and girt about at the breasts with a golden girdle:
14his head and hair white like white wool, as snow; and his eyes as a flame of fire;
15and his feet like fine brass, as burning in a furnace; and his voice as the voice of many waters;
16and having in his right hand seven stars; and out of his mouth a sharp two-edged sword going forth; and his countenance as the sun shines in its power.
17And when I saw him I fell at his feet as dead; and he laid his right hand upon me, saying, Fear not; *I* am the first and the last,
18and the living one: and I became dead, and behold, I am living to the ages of ages, and have the keys of death and of hades.

Brother, the Son of Man (Jesus) said He is the First and the Last.
This is one place where the Son says He is God

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

this was the subject at hand ,i;ll just brush this other stuff aside ...

there is a son , there is a father , the son never one place claims to be god NOT ONE!

the son is not the fahter and son , but he is the son of god! when the word OF is added ,,that means it came from him. not is him,. just simple english !

Oneness does not say the Son is the Father and Son.

[SRM]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Jesus said He is the First and Last, He is God.

• I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
- Christ is the beginning and ending of God’s great plan of salvation. Before the worlds were spoken in to existence God had planned the redemption and reconciliation of everything the first Adam would lose back to himself through the second and last Adam. It is clear the one speaking is not God due to the fact he confesses that he had died