Fundamental Doctrine

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by pelathais

And yet "they" preserved the Cathari libraries? "They" preserved entire libraries of pagan documents, Druidic material, Tarot and astrological texts, volumes of Hebrew mystical lore and alchemy - but not a single record of a single "Oneness" Three Stepper?

We can delve into huge amounts of texts on the old pagan gods - Norse, Celtic, Greek, Roman - you name it. We have the Emperor Julian's (the Apostate) severe personal accounts of how he was going to wipe out the Catholic Faith. We have texts describing sexual congress between humans and animals and "demons."

We have a "wealth" (if it's "wealth" at all) of the most anti-Christian and Anti-Roman Catholic material imaginable - all carefully preserved for posterity. Yet, we have not one single scrap of evidence that a single "Three Stepper" ever existed for the vast, vast majority of the Church Age.

Of course they did, ask any "Oneness" scholar the RCC incorporated parts of each of the others into their belief system. The dangerous heretics were the One God, Jesus Name baptizing holy rollers.

Believe it or not.

[pastor febus]

I must go now. We have bible study tonight. I will reply tonight when I get home. Thank you for your responses.
God bless

[Barb]

Originally Posted by pastor febus

This is smoke and mirrors guys. The main thrust of my post was not the writings of Marvin Arnold. The issue that you all have avoided was the compromised agreement of the upci at its inception and its connection to the Reformation.
To distill what you believe, correct me if I am wrong, are you are saying that Luther inadvertently rescued us?. I say this because I have read upc literature that alludes to his Reformation of the catholic church as the beginning of revival for the church (us).
Marvin Arnold correctly noted the persecutions of that period. Even if you want to believe what a disgruntled friend and those he may have not agreed with. Luther hated and persecuted oneness people, as did Calvin. These were not nice guys neither were they biblical Christians. Luther used filthy language in his writings especially against those who opposed him. I have read some of these passages.

I believe that the reason that Arnold is being discredited here is because his witness strikes to the core of the compromised gospel of the one stepper doctrine.
The one stepper doctrine can be traced to the reformation of the Catholic Church not the Apostolic church. Its roots are clearly Trinitarian, not biblical Christianity.
Arnold still troubles the waters for those who resist the truth, though he be dead and buried. RIP brother Arnold.

Excuse me, Elder, but this is WAY out of line!!!!

I posted on this thread, and I am a '3 stepper'...what does being a 1,2,3 stepper or any other stepper have to do with the book in question?

No one is trying to discredit Bro. Arnold. His work isn't factual...what can you say?

And as for your post about the merger, no one is avoiding anything. I believe I responded to that...the ball is now in your court, sir...

[MrMasterMind]

Originally Posted by Barb

Excuse me, Elder, but this is WAY out of line!!!!

I posted on this thread, and I am a '3 stepper'...what does being a 1,2,3 stepper or any other stepper have to do with the book in question?

No one is trying to discredit Bro. Arnold. His work isn't factual...what can you say?

And as for your post about the merger, no one is avoiding anything. I believe I responded to that...the ball is now in your court, sir...

You go girl!

[Jack Shephard]

Sam-
I tend to accept the second portion from the church in TN as what I believe the fundamental doctrine is.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by pelathais

And yet "they" preserved the Cathari libraries? "They" preserved entire libraries of pagan documents, Druidic material, Tarot and astrological texts, volumes of Hebrew mystical lore and alchemy - but not a single record of a single "Oneness" Three Stepper?

We can delve into huge amounts of texts on the old pagan gods - Norse, Celtic, Greek, Roman - you name it. We have the Emperor Julian's (the Apostate) severe personal accounts of how he was going to wipe out the Catholic Faith. We have texts describing sexual congress between humans and animals and "demons."

We have a "wealth" (if it's "wealth" at all) of the most anti-Christian and Anti-Roman Catholic material imaginable - all carefully preserved for posterity. Yet, we have not one single scrap of evidence that a single "Three Stepper" ever existed for the vast, vast majority of the Church Age.

The argument that you offer (with irony) just doesn't seem to hold up. Why was everything else of a "heretical" nature preserved but not the "Three Stepper" creed?

Not a single scrap much less a lineage.

[Barb]

Elder Febus...

As I stated in my post last night, I am what is lovingly referred to as a '3 stepper', though that is a misnomer. And though I have used Bro. A's book in the past to teach a continual line, with good conscience I can longer do so.

HOWEVER, I don't need proof for what I know in my heart. I cannot help but believe that there has always been someone who held to the Day of Pentecost revival experience, even if it was just one.

I wish I could back my inner being feelings with fact, but I cannot. But that does not make what I believe any less true to me.

I don't need hands-on proof in front of me to support my belief, any more than I need to adopt some unscriptural doctrine so I won't cut my hair.

Belief is a funny thing...if it is true to the individual, it may not be easily explained or transcribed in black and white. But if it is truth to them, people can discuss and debate until the end of time, but it won't change the heart of a believer.

I do not ridicule and falsely accuse others who do not believe it as I do. One of my favorite quotes is, For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not, no explanation will suffice.

It makes life easier to adopt this view, and makes interaction with others less 'us' and 'them'...wouldn't you agree?!

[pelathais]

I have to concur with Barb here, even though I don't share her self identifier as being a "Three Stepper."

All of the early 20th Century writers who began to preach this message unanimously agreed that they had either received this as a "revelation" or that they had studied it out. This nomenclature is enshrined in our own language today when we talk about "the revelation of the Mighty God in Christ" and etc. or "the revelation of Jesus' name baptism."

No one until the middle of the century seems to have even suggested that any sort of "lineage" or "true Church" existed in all of the intervening years.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

Of course they did, ask any "Oneness" scholar the RCC incorporated parts of each of the others into their belief system. The dangerous heretics were the One God, Jesus Name baptizing holy rollers.

Believe it or not.

I believe that this is what is said, however, anyone who has actually tried to do historical research in these areas will attest to the fact that this scenario simply did not exist. DKB is often criticized for being "weak" on this element of "the message" - but he does have the good sense not to go around inventing stuff and calling it "history." His books on the subject have always been a disappointment to the "Trail of Blood" types because DKB is honest.

The RCC as it exists today is product of the 13th Century. This is just one of many facts that don't fit the paradigm.

And if "we" were so powerful and so "dangerous" to the "Trinitarians" of yore - why aren't we so "powerful" and "dangerous" to them today?

"We" didn't even exist "back then." We're here today though. So where's the attempts to silence and blot out this message? And, if our message is so "powerful" why do we have to deceive and produce fraudulent credentials and out right fabrications to prop it up?

Arnold said that the Cathari of what is today Southern France were "One God tongue talking Apostolics." The Cathari writings show a completely different theology. The same can be said of the Bogomils, Waldensians and other groups that Arnold cites.

[pastor febus]

The last two days I have been researching Arnolds Book and it appears that some of you have a point on how he presented his argument. He should not have made such sweeping declarations knowing that someone one day would discover how sloppy his research turned out. This in and of itself does not disprove my position. The Apostolic movement has had its records burned and destroyed throughout history. This was obviously the struggle that Dr. Arnold incurred in researching his material. I have always had a problem with people that use extra biblical material to prove biblical concepts. That is why we need to pay close attention to Scripture.
Getting back to the original issue at hand… I never considered my self a three stepper. I was saved 28years before I ever heard the term used. It is not a biblical term; neither is this “one stepper” term that is used. The reason I am not happy with this denial of the essentiality of the Holy Ghost and the baptism in Jesus Name is because it also denies the death burial and resurrection outlined in the Feasts of Israel. We enter that tomb with Christ in baptism; we are risen with Him by virtue of receiving the Holy Ghost. If this is not accomplished an individual will not inherit eternal life. That type was given on Mount Sinai to be fulfilled by Christ and the Church. The Feasts portray the harvests accomplished through their respective prophetic fulfillments (I.e. The harvest of souls). This protestant dogma inadvertently conveys everlasting life to those who do not enter into the ancient pattern of that which was established on Mount Sinai and fulfilled in the Church. In my estimation that cannot be easily overlooked.
This is a serious issue because I have a mandate to preach salvation as recorded by the Apostles. This is not about friendship or getting along. I’ve learned long ago that alliances are very fragile in our movement. I do not preach out of the upc manual I preach out of the word of God. The charters created by man are just that; man made Churches patterned after their own image.
Those who align themselves with Protestant dogma should at least honestly admit it. Please do not misrepresent it by saying that it is Apostolic. Peter never preached it and neither will I.
I know that my stand offends some but my intention is not to personally offend anyone. BTW I do not know anyone of you on this thread personally. I would discuss these issues with you as I would anyone else.

God Bless You All,


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