Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I don't think Dr Segraves or Bernard will have a problem articulating what they believe if asked by educated ministers from other churches.

I agree. But both of these men are very good at dancing around the heart of the issue. Neither Seagraves or Bernard would come out and and say that they believe three-step doctrine and the Oneness of the Godhead and outward holiness standards and Baptism of the Holy Ghost as a part of the New Birth experience. These men have tried very hard to sound orthodox in their positions while upholding the traditions of the Apostolic movement.

[Light]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

While I cannot go because I am on the West Coast and trying to get well, I would encourage everyone who is in the area to go and hear Daniel Segraves, he is one of the best Theologians in Pentecost. I am sure it will be informative.

I don't get it why are they having two men who do not believe what the other is saying is necessary for salvation teach at the same meetings. The last I heard DS doesn't believe Jesus Name baptism is necessary for salvation.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Light

I don't get it why are they having two men who do not believe what the other is saying is necessary for salvation teach at the same meetings. The last I heard DS doesn't believe Jesus Name baptism is necessary for salvation.

Balance!

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I agree. But both of these men are very good at dancing around the heart of the issue. Neither Seagraves or Bernard would come out and and say that they believe three-step doctrine and the Oneness of the Godhead and outward holiness standards and Baptism of the Holy Ghost as a part of the New Birth experience. These men have tried very hard to sound orthodox in their positions while upholding the traditions of the Apostolic movement.

Do you mean they won't come out and condemn to hell anyone who hasn't obeyed Acts 2:38, or who hasn't walked in holiness by striving against sin, or who is a Trinitarian?

[Light]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Balance!

How do you balance TRUTH and FALSE DOCTRINE???

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Light

I don't get it why are they having two men who do not believe what the other is saying is necessary for salvation teach at the same meetings. The last I heard DS doesn't believe Jesus Name baptism is necessary for salvation.

Does anyone really know what these men really believe? I have read a lot of Bernard's books and from a quick glance you could almost think that he has a position very close to classic christianity but then in the last chapters will try to line up UPC doctrine with Christianity.

I would bet money that Dan Seagraves is a greasy gracer but it is probably very hard to pin him down.

Both of these men seem to want other denominations to except the UPC as "normal" but view the UPC as having the truth.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Light

How do you balance TRUTH and FALSE DOCTRINE???

Are you accusing Bernard of false doctrine?

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Light

How do you balance TRUTH and FALSE DOCTRINE???

Easy! One guy preaches truth for, say, 45 minutes, and the other guy preaches false doctrine for the same amount of time. (Which one is which? You decide! )

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Do you mean they won't come out and condemn to hell anyone who hasn't obeyed Acts 2:38, or who hasn't walked in holiness by striving against sin, or who is a Trinitarian?

It is more than that. These men don't seem to want to spell out their beliefs. The truth is that if they believe in the Water and Spirit doctrine and Acts 2:38 and Baptism with the evidence of tongues as essential to salvation then why not come out and say it. Why beat around the bush? This is what I mean by many moderate UPC churches are being a little sly by hiding what they really believe until they get folks into a side room bible study or class.

If a person really believes that you can't be saved without Acts 2:38 then why not preach it on TV and in the streets and anywhere that it can be taught. The truth is that you will rarely hear a UPC sermon that touches any of these ideas unless it is to a small body of believers.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Balance!

Is DS for or against the standard for outward Holiness?