The Failing Examples of Pastoral Leadership

[U376977]

The pastor who does not take from the church financially hurts the whole body. People are blessed when they are givers. Period. No better way to give to the Lord than to bless his servants; apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Forget it these folks hate preachers. And could care less what the Bible says.I have paid saint's rent, made car payments, bought them clothes, carried them groceries, took them to the doctor and aoid the bill, bought tires for their cars, fixed their transmissions, drove them across states to visit their sick relatives in hospitals, ran the tires off my car visiting hospitals-nursing homes, jails, senior saint's homes to check on them when their kids didn't have the time. Sorry this pushed my button.

I am wondering....
is it an example of a 'failing example' involving a pastoral leadership position to declare that the posters at AFF hate preachers?

If hatred is resident in the heart, that person is a murderer.
Hating preachers would make a person a murderer.

A declaration of this sort is extreme and could cause little ones to stumble.

Our failing examples should consider if we are accountable for the words we use.

Could thinking that "these folks hate preachers" be an example of a heart that has bitterness toward others?

[The Lemon]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

Uh... read them again. Look up what was intended with the world "double honor". Come on guys. You can do better than this. Reading into the text... the part about hirelings, was not about being supported by giving. Is that how you interpret that really???

Also, don't throw in 10 points to make the case of 1. For example, many of us will agree large buildings have drawbacks, but when you include that in this argument, you cloud the simpleness of what we are talking about.

UMMM.... Read my post AGAIN. I did not say or do I advocate NOT honoring or caring for the ministry......how much sense would that make when I am a licensed preacher myself????

I am thankful for true shepherds, I have sat under that, and the other - as many on this forum have. I am not a preacher hater, for crying out loud, I am one!!

I think this is just a hot button on BOTH sides, as the responses are full of animosity on both sides. Maybe we are all "reading" into this whole thread, some things about each other that are absolute speculation at best.

Just as you say that I am "reading" something into this portion of scripture...i have conversely seen this portion of scripture misrepresented on the other hand in church's as well.

Bottom line is that ministers...not JUST pastors, are worthy of double honor, and anyone benefitting from their service should help to care for them. We can't, however just ignore verse 11 just so we can stand on some soapbox and declare who is or is not a preacher hater etc.

Good grief...I'm sorry I posted on this thread.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I believe there are more caring pastors,than uncaring ones.
Don't judge something till you know the whole situation.
Ministers live in fishbowls,and they can't make everybody happy.
I'm not a pastor,but if people tried pastoring I think they would be less critical of pastors.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by The Lemon

UMMM.... Read my post AGAIN. I did not say or do I advocate NOT honoring or caring for the ministry......how much sense would that make when I am a licensed preacher myself????

I am thankful for true shepherds, I have sat under that, and the other - as many on this forum have. I am not a preacher hater, for crying out loud, I am one!!

I think this is just a hot button on BOTH sides, as the responses are full of animosity on both sides. Maybe we are all "reading" into this whole thread, some things about each other that are absolute speculation at best.

Just as you say that I am "reading" something into this portion of scripture...i have conversely seen this portion of scripture misrepresented on the other hand in church's as well.

Bottom line is that ministers...not JUST pastors, are worthy of double honor, and anyone benefitting from their service should help to care for them. We can't, however just ignore verse 11 just so we can stand on some soapbox and declare who is or is not a preacher hater etc.

Good grief...I'm sorry I posted on this thread.

I haven't called anyone a "preacher hater." I'm suggesting the text was used incorrectly, in light of all the other scriptures on the same subject.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I don't think anybody here is a pastor hater.
I don't feel though it's a sin to disagree with a pastor,as pastors are human too.
But to hate something that God has ordained like pastoring would be insane.

[Rhoni]

I think that every Pastor should have an outside job to keep them in touch with the needs and schedules of those who carry full time positions.

It has been my experience, having been on both sides of the fence; that at one time my life was 'the church' and my expectations of the saints were irrational and many times unfair. Most households are two wage-earner households and the length of revivals, and attendance to every function at the church. Many saints fuss about many doing away with Sunday Night service, but I happen to agree with this. The difficult part is that in lui of not having a Sunday Night Service, they have Monday night Prayer, Tuesday night women's meeting, Wednesday night Bible Study, Youth ministries on Friday night, ect. which defeats the purpose of not having a Sunday night service.

The BEST I had seen this handled is at the UPCI church in Clearwater, FL. I enjoyed church more when it began Sunday Morning:
8-9 a.m. Leadership prayer
9-10 a.m. Choir practice and getting ready for class, cafe - coffeee & donuts
10-11 a.m. Sunday School classes, support groups, ect
11 a.m. Morning worhsip and evangelistic service.

We prayed before services in the sanctuary and it ushered in the presence of the Lord. Mid-week service was at a reasonable hour for those who worked, and any extra things were for that particular group only and did not involve the whole church.

I think this is one of the only churches I have been to that are so aware of the needs of the people to spend time at home [Monday being Family night for everyone at home], and limiting extra services to accommodate those who worked. They also limited the number of special meetings to quality ones in a specific time frame that would be beneficial and not financilly hurtful and keep the kids up late not allowing them to get rest for school.

I said all that to say: It is so much easier for Pastors who have worked or are working to meet the needs of the working class that fills out churches.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by U376977

The pastor who does not take from the church financially hurts the whole body. People are blessed when they are givers. Period. No better way to give to the Lord than to bless his servants; apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers.

You have been listening too much to Paula White, Steve Munsey, and ...

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

You have been listening too much to Paula White, Steve Munsey, and ...

No he has a revelation on giving and his worship includes his wallet. Giving is powerful. It's not a "get rich" game, it's an attitude-shift. Money controls people's attitudes. The spirit of a giver never has that problem.

[U376977]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

I haven't called anyone a "preacher hater." I'm suggesting the text was used incorrectly, in light of all the other scriptures on the same subject.

GP I agree with you. It was used incorrect, IMO