"To those holding the fort at all costs—and there doesn’t seem to be a consensus on what exactly the fort is—we may wake up one day to realize the fort is empty."
Rodney Shaw
This is such a great quote!
__________________ The world has lost the power to blush over its vice; the Church has lost her power to weep over it.
I pray that things are balanced out and that each generation realizes how much they need each other. I am young and probably more "progressive" than some, but I shudder at the thought of a bunch of us young, relatively inexperienced guys going out and doing our own thing. I think we need the wisdom and stability of a generation that has been able to hold its anchor for decades. However, we need that generation to trust us and embrace the kinds of changes that are logical, natural, and that do not change the message. I think it is not only necessary, but possible, particularly when men like Bro. Shaw say what he is saying.
Those are admirable feelings Stew. But I can also remember seeing how the "older" generation made a shipwreck of entire churches and even districts. I followed some guys with all the loyalty a human being could muster, only to later find out that they weren't even interested in the Kingdom and they were happiest when their churches were empty.
Just because they're "older" doesn't mean they're "wiser." Remember the prophet's rebuke for the old men that wept while the young men shouted? See Ezra 3:8-13 and Zechariah 4:1-10.
The fact that we twist that passage just shows how badly we' as a movement have lost sight of the Lord. The young men did well to shout, and they pleased God. The old men wept for "the good ol' days" and God Himself rebuked them.
Those are admirable feelings Stew. But I can also remember seeing how the "older" generation made a shipwreck of entire churches and even districts. I followed some guys with all the loyalty a human being could muster, only to later find out that they weren't even interested in the Kingdom and they were happiest when their churches were empty.
Just because they're "older" doesn't mean they're "wiser." Remember the prophet's rebuke for the old men that wept while the young men shouted?
The fact that we twist that passage just shows how badly wee've lost sight of the Lord as a movement. The young men did well to shout, and they pleased God. The old men wept for "the ol' days" and God Himself rebuked them.
I understand that. First of all however, I don't think it was everybody in the older generation who did those kinds of things. There were many great men and women of God who have stood the test of time, whose works are evident to all. I think that the cover has been torn off of many of those who were abusive and many people see them for what they were.
There are also some people in leadership who are wise enough to see trends and see that some of what you could get away with in years past will no longer fly. My point is that we need each other...we need to find a way to mix the weeping and the shouting and I do believe it is possible.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
I understand that. First of all however, I don't think it was everybody in the older generation who did those kinds of things. There were many great men and women of God who have stood the test of time, whose works are evident to all. I think that the cover has been torn off of many of those who were abusive and many people see them for what they were.
There are also some people in leadership who are wise enough to see trends and see that some of what you could get away with in years past will no longer fly. My point is that we need each other...we need to find a way to mix the weeping and the shouting and I do believe it is possible.
This won't happen until the older generation trusts the younger.
__________________ The world has lost the power to blush over its vice; the Church has lost her power to weep over it.
This won't happen until the older generation trusts the younger.
Yeah, those are my feelings as well. I just think that the day is coming when they will realize that ultimately they have no choice. I think that is a lot of what Bro. Shaw is saying. People tell me I'm just an optimist...but I honestly do see daylight
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
This won't happen until the older generation trusts the younger.
...and I also think that this needs to work both ways. The younger need to trust the older a little and not feel like we have all the answers and a better way to do everything.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Yeah, those are my feelings as well. I just think that the day is coming when they will realize that ultimately they have no choice. I think that is a lot of what Bro. Shaw is saying. People tell me I'm just an optimist...but I honestly do see daylight
Think about that for a minute.
Trust only when there is no other choice?
__________________ The world has lost the power to blush over its vice; the Church has lost her power to weep over it.
I understand that. First of all however, I don't think it was everybody in the older generation who did those kinds of things. There were many great men and women of God who have stood the test of time, whose works are evident to all. I think that the cover has been torn off of many of those who were abusive and many people see them for what they were.
There are also some people in leadership who are wise enough to see trends and see that some of what you could get away with in years past will no longer fly. My point is that we need each other...we need to find a way to mix the weeping and the shouting and I do believe it is possible.
It's not just the handful who were "abusive" but an entire movement that cried out - "We don't want to inherit the promise!" It was the entire Oneness Pentecostal nation and all of its "tribes" that has rebelled against God. It's a "we" thing that Rodney Shaw's article stirs up. It's you and me - even though you and I might have had better ideas; we're still part of the problem and we all need to change.
Yes, the mix is great and Ezra seems to have noticed the harmony in that sound. But the "ancient" men were weeping because the "bounderies" of the foundation and porch were "smaller." They remembered an ethereal cloud that may have shone from the Holy Place if everything was just right back in the "ol' days."
Zechariah spoke of a greater glory than that. He said that this "small thing" - this "new thing" would in fact host the greatest glory God had ever manifested. And indeed it did. It was those same stones that were laid down in the days of Ezra and Nehemiah that Jesus Christ walked upon. God had an incredible glory planned for Israel - but the only response He got from a lot of folks was, "that ain't how we used to do it!"
It's not just the handful who were "abusive" but an entire movement that cried out - "We don't want to inherit the promise!" It was the entire Oneness Pentecostal nation and all of its "tribes" that has rebelled against God. It's a "we" thing that Rodney Shaw's article stirs up. It's you and me - even though you and I might have had better ideas; we're still part of the problem and we all need to change.
Yes, the mix is great and Ezra seems to have noticed the harmony in that sound. But the "ancient" men were weeping because the "bounderies" of the foundation and porch were "smaller." They remembered an ethereal cloud that may have shone from the Holy Place if everything was just right back in the "ol' days."
Zechariah spoke of a greater glory than that. He said that this "small thing" - this "new thing" would in fact host the greatest glory God had ever manifested. And indeed it did. It was those same stones that were laid down in the days of Ezra and Nehemiah that Jesus Christ walked upon. God had an incredible glory planned for Israel - but the only response He got from a lot of folks was, "that ain't how we used to do it!"
Pel, I believe I see some of the same problems you see, but I'm just saying that not every new thing is good...or every good thing new. I think that the kind of balance that BRo Shaw is talking about is going to be best for both generations and the world.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
and I do believe it is possible.
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