Not Holy Spirit filled, Give Message in Tongues? - Page 3

Scott Hutchinson · #21 01-08-2009, 01:40 AM

God honors faith,and He will move for people in response to their faith,and grant non-spirit filled people healing and miracles but can one have a gift of the Spirit without having the Spirit ?

Hoovie · #22 01-08-2009, 06:29 AM

Let me try to reword this.

Are any of the gifts of the Spirit evidence of the Holy Spirit in the individual's life?

For those who have said some of these can be faked - I agree.

chseeads · #23 01-08-2009, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Are any of the gifts of the Spirit evidence of the Holy Spirit in the individual's life?

It could be, but doesn't necessarily mean so. If a person has never spoken in tongues, yet apparently has the gifts, it doesn't mean they have the Holy Ghost.

scotty · #24 01-08-2009, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Let me try to reword this.

Are any of the gifts of the Spirit evidence of the Holy Spirit in the individual's life?

For those who have said some of these can be faked - I agree.

Yes.

shag · #25 01-08-2009, 08:09 AM

I have friends that have never spoke in tongues, and produce righteous fruit 100 fold that of many that have spoken in tongues. Seems to prove to me they're Spirit led. Can God's Spirit lead them to producing that much "good fruit", without indwelling in , and without them ever speaking in tongues as the evidence of His indwelling? I think so, and I also think folks like James Dobson, for 1, has God's Spirit leading him from the inside, whether he's spoken in tongues to convince me, or not.
As far as "gifts of healing", I have not PERSONALLY seen any H.G. filled person evidence with tongues, or any other, that retains that gift, tho I feel there is some out there that may have it, whether they have spoken in tongues or not. Jesus said you'll know them by their fruits. I wonder if we're a lttle amiss looking for tongues as the 1 and only sign, when evident fruits say that person is being led by God's Spirit.

BadgerBoysMom · #26 01-08-2009, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

When Jesus came into my own heart I was never the same. I was converted, the word was illuminated to me. I loved to pray and felt the overwhelming presence of God. I was compelled to make restitution to those I had wronged and testified publicly to many of my peers at church and work.

Did you speak in tongues at this time?

I'd like to give a bit of history about myself. I was raised in a non christian home. I had little to no church background growing up other than a few Easter Sundays, one summer camp and a few services with friends in high school. It was just a blip here and there.

But at age 22 I was invited and went to a UPC Church with a friend and coworker. Up to this point my life had spiraled into complete chaos and I was ready for a change. The message that night (I believe) was directed to me personally. I don't mean to sound egotistical or anything I just know the hell I had in my own life and how desparate I was for help/healing.

Anyway, I prayed (and wept and so on) until I was completely emptied out. I committed my life to Jesus that night and was FOREVER CHANGED. He came in my heart and I was made ALIVE. What was dead was reborn. I was "born again" that night. I cannot describe (in words) the change that took place within my heart, my mind, and my soul (and still do it justice). It is just not possible. The next day and over the next few weeks people would comment on the fact that I had changed. That something was different about me. A lady whom I worked with me later told me that she could almost literally see a glow around me. (probably b/c I was so filthy in sin that the cleaning up itself made me glow... HA HA)

However, I did NOT speak in tongues until almost a month later and have many times since then almost 15 yrs ago. And quite honestly this PALED IN COMPARISON to my experience at the alter the first night. No experience since that first night has ever compared.

Based on my experience I would say it is not only possible but that it does happen. I think we as an organization place way too much emphasis on tongues and not nearly enough on developing the Fruit of the Spirit and walking in the Spirit.

Any how... just a bit about me.

chseeads · #27 01-08-2009, 09:48 AM

It's not all just about a feeling that we have at any given point in time - whether when not speaking in tongues, or when speaking in tongues.

scotty · #28 01-08-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseeads

It's not all just about a feeling that we have at any given point in time - whether when not speaking in tongues, or when speaking in tongues.

Exactly !

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadgerBoysMom

FOREVER CHANGED. He came in my heart and I was made ALIVE. What was dead was reborn. I was "born again" that night. I cannot describe (in words) the change that took place within my heart, my mind, and my soul (and still do it justice). It is just not possible. The next day and over the next few weeks people would comment on the fact that I had changed. That something was different about me. A lady whom I worked with me later told me that she could almost literally see a glow around me. (probably b/c I was so filthy in sin that the cleaning up itself made me glow... HA HA)

People have life changes like this all the time without ever stepping into a church.

ILG · #29 01-08-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

We know that miracles, healings, signs and wonders can be present in the lives of Christians who have not been filled with the Holy Spirit (with speaking in tongues as evidence). Also, prophecies were given by many who did not speak in tongues.

Here are the questions.

If we assume speaking in tongues at Holy Spirit baptism is a different and separate occurrence than speaking in tongues that are subsequently interpreted, is it then possible that one may "give a message in tongues" and not have been baptized with the Holy Spirit?

Does operating in this gift necessarily imply that the speaker also received the Holy Spirit? Why when one has the gift of healing or knowledge then does it not imply the same??

Woah! Very thought provoking question!!

Sam · #30 01-08-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

When Jesus came into my own heart I was never the same. I was converted, the word was illuminated to me. I loved to pray and felt the overwhelming presence of God. I was compelled to make restitution to those I had wronged and testified publicly to many of my peers at church and work.

On March 28, 1955 at the age of 17, I asked Jesus to come into my heart. I did not feel anything earthshaking at that moment but my life changed. My language cleaned up. I quit smoking and drinking alcohol. I started going to church and later joined a Baptist Church. I started carrying my Bible to school to read during study hall. I was a new creature according to 2 Corinthians 5:17.

I saw by reading my Bible and by listening to some preaching on the radio (Revivaltime with C.M. Ward plus some preachers like A.A. Allen, Jack Coe, Glenn Thompson) that there was more available for me as a Christian.

October 27, 1955 I was re-baptized. I had been baptized in a nearby lake by my Baptist pastor that summer.

May 20, 1955 I received the Holy Ghost Baptism.

I've been serving the Lord (some times not very well) for over 50 years. Many of those years I had to "deny" the experience with God that I had received because it wasn't "proper" water baptism and because I hadn't spoken with tongues. In other words, I was not REALLY saved until I spoke with tongues more than a year after my life was radically changed. I no longer deny the life changing experience I received when I simply asked Jesus to come in. I believe He did come in as the Holy Spirit when I asked. Over a year later I received a subsequent experience when I spoke with tongues. That was a filling, a baptism in the Spirit, but it was not salvation. I was no more saved afterward than I was before.

Now, this is my opinion and may not agree with your opinion.