Is this one of those RELEVANT CHURCHES?

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

I agree with you, but again, why wouldn't you want someone to know what you believe up front?

Would you be ashamed of it? Would you worry that it would scare people off?

I think that if you are truly convinced of what you believe, you would want to let people know about it - in a loving way, of course.

Would you accept a job where the interviewer said, "We'll discuss your job duties and pay later, just come be a part of our great company, we love everyone here!"

I guess I'm a big believer of letting people know what to expect up front, but that's just me.

They will know what you believe. On a personal level, I've never given everyone every doctrine of the church just to invite them to church. I'm not ashamed of the doctrine, and in fact, being sensitive to the timing, will share all the truth with them. Before they get meat, they need some milk. Just my take. Hope no one is ashamed.

[ChicagoPastor]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

WF is still UPC, isn't he?

Baptismal statement seems pretty traditional. Salvaton and HG statement ????

Wayne is very much still UPC.
He has been at HQ's for the last several years.

From what I know, he is moving back to NY (unless something changed) to start a Church in 2009

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Not to put down on the website or the pastor but I am not so sure that I am impressed with the vision of the vision cast/video. The production is good but it just looks like they are trying to trick folks into something that they aren't. I have a feeling that the church is pretty traditional.

Personally, I find it awesome to go start a church in what looks like one of the nicest places to live in the world. Looks like a great place to raise kids and enjoy life.

True. NYC looks like a great city. Far cry from my small town!

I think the only "tricked" people will be the churched, not the un-churched. They will find it refreshing to have the same wine in a new wineskin.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

They will know what you believe. On a personal level, I've never given everyone every doctrine of the church just to invite them to church. I'm not ashamed of the doctrine, and in fact, being sensitive to the timing, will share all the truth with them. Before they get meat, they need some milk. Just my take. Hope no one is ashamed.

I'm talking about posting what you believe on a website.

Why wouldn't you?

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

I'm talking about posting what you believe on a website.

Why wouldn't you?

At least a doctrinal statement, huh. I would personally.

But I guess I'm not against others who want to use their website as more of a church billboard, or church sign. Simplify it and get the message that we are a "family" church, we aren't weirdos, come visit us, etc...

You guys said it best. Imitation seems to be the consensus. Maybe being authentic is just being... well, authentic

[deltaguitar]

You know, I looked at the website some more and something about the whole thing just doesn't appeal to me. I am 28 and would consider myself to be in the crowd who would be looking for a relevant church and I am just not sure this guy would be it.

I think folks who are already in a typical oneness church would really like what he is doing because he would make them feel very safe. Young people who are already UPC but are looking for some excitement would find him relevant. I don't see any new thing here just an intelligent guy with a pretty wife who knows how to dress and look good. Just reminds me way to much of youth camps and conventions as a kid. Just looks a little superficial so me, not authentic.

Now, this is all on looks. Maybe if I listened to the guy and found that he is preaching the gospel in some kind of relevant way them I might change my mind.

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

You know, I looked at the website some more and something about the whole thing just doesn't appeal to me. I am 28 and would consider myself to be in the crowd who would be looking for a relevant church and I am just not sure this guy would be it.

I think folks who are already in a typical oneness church would really like what he is doing because he would make them feel very safe. Young people who are already UPC but are looking for some excitement would find him relevant. I don't see any new thing here just an intelligent guy with a pretty wife who knows how to dress and look good. Just reminds me way to much of youth camps and conventions as a kid. Just looks a little superficial so me, not authentic.

Now, this is all on looks. Maybe if I listened to the guy and found that he is preaching the gospel in some kind of relevant way them I might change my mind.

Delta your post made me laugh. I won't defend WF and the UPC Catalyst fans out there, but I will say this to your comments: if your idea of relevant has to do with the wine, then it's a different discussion. I believe WF is all about the wine skin, trying to keep the wine the same as it always has been, but putting a new skin on it.

[Nahum]

A few things to consider.

1. Why is the physical address for the church listed as St. Charles, Mo if Wayne is moving back to Yonkers?

2. Why no mention of the UPCI at all? I am surprised that WF would not list his current position with the org.

3. His doctrinal statement is a bit weak.

[jimmyrrs]

Last year I heared him preach at youth camp. I guess for the youth he was the right choice. He did ok, just not my kind of preacher.

[Hoovie]

Great website. I like it. and who says the site does not reflect what the man believes? That is rather presumptuous is it not?