Do you choose what you believe in?

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Questioner

I'm at a loss as to how to answer that since I stated in the first post that I don't believe I have chosen whether to believe or whether not to believe... that is like asking whether you like chocolate ice cream or not. If you do like chocolate ice cream, why did you choose to like it?

I will say... carefully... that I do not feel that religion or spirituality has anything to offer me, and do not feel that ministers or being subjected to a minister would benefit me in any way. Being raised in a preacher's home, I was usually annoyed by those people who would come to the preacher for everything and could never figure out why they could not make any decisions on their own, etc. I also found that it was easier to use shows like "Leave it to Beaver" or "Andy Griffith" as a litmus test for normalcy because I felt my Pentecostal upbringing was anything but normal. And no, I didn't have a television growing up... my close friends find it odd that I would try to apply a template from a tv show as my litmus test for normalcy... I didn't even realize it was odd until they pointed it out.

I'm usually able to make the right decisions on my own without having to go to someone else for assistance in making those decisions. If for some reason I make the wrong decision, I accept responsibility for the wrong decision and try to correct the behavior as needed.

I may also be a Deist or Humanist... I'm really not clear enough on the differences of all the different terms to know which label fits, or if I am some hybrid of several labels.

So this goes beyond whether you have ever believed for yourself? But rather, if any belief is a choice?

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by cneasttx

I think the biggest question is, why would you choose not to believe?

Cindy, I understand your question, and to those who DO believe, the question makes perfect sense.

But, unfortunately, to someone who is struggling with their faith, this doesn't answer the question.

It's like someone who is sold on Ford cars trying to convince a GM driver to convert by asking, "Why WOULDN'T you want to drive a Ford?" To you, it's obvious, but to someone else, the answer is not that simple.

Peter said that we should always be prepared to "give unto every man a REASON of the hope that is within you", not necessarily a reason AGAINST not having hope.

Hope you understand my post, and I'm not criticizing your response, but as one who has been thru what Questioner seems to be going thru, this may be a bit of a conundrum.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Cindy, I understand your question, and to those who DO believe, the question makes perfect sense.

But, unfortunately, to someone who is struggling with their faith, this doesn't answer the question.

It's like someone who is sold on Ford cars trying to convince a GM driver to convert by asking, "Why WOULDN'T you want to drive a Ford?" To you, it's obvious, but to someone else, the answer is not that simple.

Peter said that we should always be prepared to "give unto every man a REASON of the hope that is within you", not necessarily a reason AGAINST not having hope.

Hope you understand my post, and I'm not criticizing your response, but as one who has been thru what Questioner seems to be going thru, this may be a bit of a conundrum.

Oh I sure do, I have been there myself. Wondering why I believed. Or if I believed for myself, or just because I was raised in the faith. It all comes down to Jesus for me. And belief is a choice I make. It is not natural to sinful man to believe is it? So we choose to, or not to believe. I choose because I don't just believe IN God, but I BELIEVE God.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Questioner

I'm not sure yet... I feel exposed already just from what I have already shared. I will think about it. Thanks for taking the time to correspond.

I understand.

Please know any identity would be kept confidential...

And know that there's no pressure from me. Your path is your path. But you sound like you could use someone to speak with openly. There's not a thing you could say to me that'd cause me any concern in any way.

Ok, maybe one thing...if you are plotting the destruction of the human race I'm probably not interested in talking to you.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Take the bible as it written and rightly divide it don't read it and filter it through a commentary,or a manual but take the word,without any religious bias.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

You've given a definition of what faith does but I'm interested on what faith is.....

RD: Hebrews 11:1 is the Bible definition of faith. If you like apologetics Faith Has its Reasons by Rob Bowman discusses reasoned faith through many methods of apologetics and those who teach them. I've found that these type of things help my faith, they strengthen it, but they do not sustain my faith when doubts come my way.

Questioner: I was an atheist before becoming a Christian and the thing that opened my heart to the possibility of the existence of God was an EXPERIENCE with God. I hated talking with Christians about God and would rudely walk away. The word of God, reading the words of Jesus in the gospels, converted me (I didn't come to the Lord in a church). Even now, my experiences with God (and to a lesser extent with the power of darkness) sustain me when doubts come as to God's existence and from time to time they do. The same spirit of atheisim (or whatever you want to call it) still tries to fill my mind with doubt but I've had too many experiences with God now that all I have to do and what I've done all along is REMEMBER all the times that God has drawn very near to me or healed me or kept me and the doubts disappear quickly.

Once I came to believe in the existence of God and that Jesus is God....the very spiritual experience I had when I was baptized and when I spoke in tongues the first time while praying for God to use my hands as his own convinced me that the Bible is the word of God...because I experienced it for myself. So when the devil comes with more thoughts that God doesn't love me or God is not good... I have other experiences with God that in my heart tell me that the Bible is true because it's words have been confirmed by experience and therefore I can trust it and not the foolish lies that come into my mind from the deceiver.

Many will disregard what I say because experience is subjective, I don't care.

Taste and see that the Lord is good and God is not a God who is afar off but a God at hand. Seek Him with all of your heart and you will find Him. Prove Him by obeying His word. He is extremely merciful. Questioner, you will find NOTHING in being an agnostic or an atheist. I didn't realize to after becoming a Christian how lost and without hope I was when I believed that when we died, that was the end of us. I truly hope and pray you don't go there.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by cneasttx

Oh I sure do, I have been there myself. Wondering why I believed. Or if I believed for myself, or just because I was raised in the faith. It all comes down to Jesus for me. And belief is a choice I make. It is not natural to sinful man to believe is it? So we choose to, or not to believe. I choose because I don't just believe IN God, but I BELIEVE God.

If belief was simply a choice I could make, things would be a lot easier for me. These are the kind of answers that turned me completely away from Christianity. And I know the people offering them to me meant no harm, and I know you mean no harm. But this answer wasn't enough for me, it still isn't enough for me.

It's like taking someone who's colorblind out and watching a sunset with them. No matter how much you describe what you're seeing, what you're viewing, what you're experiencing, it won't mean anything to that person. It doesn't diminish your experience in any way. It just leaves them without that shared point of reference.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

RD: Hebrews 11:1 is the Bible definition of faith. If you like apologetics Faith Has its Reasons by Rob Bowman discusses reasoned faith through many methods of apologetics and those who teach them. I've found that these type of things help my faith, they strengthen it, but they do not sustain my faith when doubts come my way.

Questioner: I was an atheist before becoming a Christian and the thing that opened my heart to the possibility of the existence of God was an EXPERIENCE with God. I hated talking with Christians about God and would rudely walk away. The word of God, reading the words of Jesus in the gospels, converted me (I didn't come to the Lord in a church). Even now, my experiences with God (and to a lesser extent with the power of darkness) sustain me when doubts come as to God's existence and from time to time they do. The same spirit of atheisim (or whatever you want to call it) still tries to fill my mind with doubt but I've had too many experiences with God now that all I have to do and what I've done all along is REMEMBER all the times that God has drawn very near to me or healed me or kept me and the doubts disappear quickly.

Once I came to believe in the existence of God and that Jesus is God....the very spiritual experience I had when I was baptized and when I spoke in tongues the first time while praying for God to use my hands as his own convinced me that the Bible is the word of God...because I experienced it for myself. So when the devil comes with more thoughts that God doesn't love me or God is not good... I have other experiences with God that in my heart tell me that the Bible is true because it's words have been confirmed by experience and therefore I can trust it and not the foolish lies that come into my mind from the deceiver.

Many will disregard what I say because experience is subjective, I don't care.

Taste and see that the Lord is good and God is not a God who is afar off but a God at hand. Seek Him with all of your heart and you will find Him. Prove Him by obeying His word. He is extremely merciful. Questioner, you will find NOTHING in being an agnostic or an atheist. I didn't realize to after becoming a Christian how lost and without hope I was when I believed that when we died, that was the end of us. I truly hope and pray you don't go there.

THIS is the key, right here, Miz!

This ties into TRFrance's comment about the man with an experience never being at the mercy of a man with an argument!

Igor Sikorsky, inventor of the helicopter, had this plaque hanging on his wall:

(Paraphrased) "Due to the size and weight of its body in proportion to the area of its wingspan, scientist have concluded that the bumblebee cannot fly. Of course, the bumblebee does not know this, so he goes ahead and flies anyway!"

[mizpeh]

To answer your question: if we don't choose what to believe then we have become a fatalistic. In effect, we then believe in fate (whether we admit it or not) and that our future is totally out of our control and is in the hands of something other than ourselves.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

To answer your question: if we don't choose what to believe then we have become a fatalistic. In effect, we then believe in fate (whether we admit it or not) and that our future is totally out of our control and is in the hands of something other than ourselves.

But, isn't that in effect what we believe when we have faith in God?