Do you consider a fundamentalist, out of touch?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I'm sorry the pictures of her preaching are on her MySpace

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndid=266582404

Co Pastors?

[SDG]

Teach the women ????...

There is one pic of her PREACHING (captioned as such) ... with a man in the background.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I've had debates with Branham followers for years and the serpent seed doctrine was always very very important to them

PRAX, very important in their understanding of the purpose of Jesus "shedding his blood" but not ESSENTIAL ....

The Serpent Seed people have been treated like bastard children because of this belief.. I was one of those who thought of them as repulsive because of the church I was raised in.... it was soo funny once I came to Serpent Seed understanding I sat down with my Pastor and had a looooong talk with him about it.. when it was over here was his words "That's not how I always heard it, let's not divide fellowship over that"

His ideas of Serpent Seed was vastly different than what we actually believe.

[Pro31:28]

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

Ok,, you guys just love getting me in trouble don't you?

You see you ask my opinion and I will give it and this board will call me hateful and out of touch... but here is my opinion

I believe a womans place first and foremost is as the nuturer of her children and the helper of her husband... you will forgive me if that sounds archaic

In the church her role is as Paul said.. Pauls mentions the woman praying and Prophesying.... with her head covered in reverence to her head which is her husband... there is a strong admonition for women to be used of God in prayer and the gifts of the Spirit.... and as workers she is simply forbidden because of "the beginning" to have any authority over a man..... not that the man is better than her but he is her head... I KNOW, I KNOW.. how dare I say such things..... but she is allowed to TEACH THE WOMEN,, Paul encourages the older women to teach the younger women.... she does wonderfully in connecting with children and training them in the ways of God... but when she stands to bring forth doctrine, rebuke, correction, exhortation she is stepping in an authorative position over the souls of men and God has forbidden it.... sorry.. no harm intended

No harm taken,

I was just curious about your feelings on this. I find it interesting that Women not preaching, and lack of remarriage, and no hair-cutting are three things that you decided to point out in your post. It seems as if you are looking to cause controversy.

Originally Posted by Baron1710

He better get that woman under submission. Quick.

Hey Baron, I understand you are being facetious but may I say something to you? My wife is in such submission. NOT TO ME but to the WORD.. that once she and I both hard a Man of God preach on women in ministry and it rubbed us both wrong.. weeks later.. she asked to listen to it again... the next night she went before our church... and explained that she felt to be obedient to Gods Word she must no longer address the men of our church.. and asked if she has disobeyed Gods word out of ignorance to be forgiven... She then began to speak only at our ladies meetings... she did this without my having any idea she was going to do this.. I NEVER ONE TIME said one word to her.... she believed it before I did

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Pro31:28

No harm taken,

I was just curious about your feelings on this. I find it interesting that Women not preaching, and lack of remarriage, and no hair-cutting are three things that you decided to point out in your post. It seems as if you are looking to cause controversy.

Ok you can cut your hair, and preach, but the remarriage thing you are stuck!!

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Teach the women ????...

There is one pic of her PREACHING (captioned as such) ... with a man in the background.

Mr. Alicea.. again we had it all wrong in those days.... we do it differently now.. just as I am sure you have changed things over the years and wouldn't want to be held accountable for things you might have done ignorantly or foolishly in the past

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

To all of the wonderful friends and foes who post on this forum.... I want to say first of all how sorry I am if my words have offended either of you. I suppose out here you feel more at liberty to let your expressions lose since there is no personal interaction, there's no facial expressions to tell when you have hurt someone, there's no fear of having to interact with that person in the future and thus you're not as careful in the way you speak.....

I would like for this board to know... one minute with me in person and you and I would be friends for life. Anyone who has ever met me will tell you there is not a time when my smile is not from ear to ear, making everyone laugh and keeping peoples Spirits high... I love people, I love Gods church and most importantly I love God.

You’ve never offended me bro. From what I read above I think you have a very good attitude and kind spirit.

Here is my question..... If someone like myself is a Fundametalist.. and what I mean by that is, we take a very literal interpretation of Gods Word.. we don't do well with "We'll it really means this or that or in the original it doesn't mean that.. we find safety in taking as much of the Word at face value as possible... and if by chance we have it wrong.. we feel facing God without Greek or Hebrew knowledge would not be counted against us.....

Well…we might have a difference in opinion here. A “literal” interpretation of God’s Word is not necessarily the proper way to interpret something so dynamic as the Bible. The Bible expresses multiple languages, linguistic metaphors, and cultural references relevant for the day in which it was written. For example, let’s say I that 2,000 years from now that I wanted to interpret a series of letters written by Americans today. One might have written,

“Today gasoline cost me an arm and a leg.”

Now…if I took that literally without seeking to understand the linguistic usage of phrases and words in the day they were written, would I not fail to properly interpret what was said? I might walk away believing they bartered with body parts. LOL

The Bible is similar. There are linguistic, geographic, and cultural things going on throughout the Scriptures that we are unfamiliar with. For example, Jesus writing on the sand. What did he write? Why did he write on the sand? If one doesn’t understand how things were done among the Jews of Christ’s day no one would realize the meaning of Christ’s actions or even why the Pharisees brought the woman caught in adultery to him. Another example, when the woman came and washed Christ’s feet with her “tears” and dried them with her hair….what is the significance of this? Did she literally use her “tears” or was this a term used for something common in Christ’s day? Lastly, only the original autographs are inerrant. What we have today are translations of copies…and sadly these are not always accurate. For example, consider Genesis 49:6,

Genesis 49:6
O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.

Is the phrase, “digged down a wall”, an accurate translation of the Greek texts used to translate our highly revered King James Bible?

No. Look it up if you don’t believe me. This means that they, “hamstrung oxen”. So as you can see, taking the English translation literally completely betrays the literal wording of the Greek texts.

Interpreting and teaching the Bible isn’t for novices or amateurs. Much study and reflection much accompany biblical knowledge. A teacher must go deeper than the surface and find the truth of the matter in texts that look one way to us…but were indeed quite different in reality.

Rather than try to find ways "Around" the Word... I am one who feels safe in reading the WORD and living it exactly as I read it... I am not condoning ignorance.. education is something I preach and believe in vehemntly.. but sometimes I do wonder if "much learning has not made us mad."

But there’s the issue someone like me would worry about…you’re reading the Bible “as I read it”, meaning as you read it. It becomes of private interpretation. One’s interpretation has to be founded on sound hermeneutics…not personal opinion. That being said though, no interpretation of Scripture is fool proof. There will always be things debated and discussed until Christ returns.

Now, my question for this board.... why is it that if someone like me who is very fundamental is so reviled? I realize my opinions are contrary to the mainstream but is was not so just years ago with my forefather.....

I may not be as much of a “fundamentalist” as you…but you’d be surprised with how much we might agree upon.

Had I made these statements just 30 years ago

A woman should not preach
Men should not remarry if they are divorced
Women should not cut their hair

Amen. I agree that women should not preach. I also agree that men and women should not remarry unless the previous marriage was dissolved on the grounds of adultery or abandonment. In addition I don’t think women should cut their hair. Though I think we miss a detail about what Paul said. When Paul said that it was a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, it wasn’t in regards to hair cuts so to speak. It was in reference to the custom of taking an unfaithful woman by her hair and cutting it off at the nap of the neck to shame her publicly. The reference to shaven has a lot to do with the prostitution common in pagan temples. Also Paul was literally talking about head coverings. Not wearing one in worship was considered as shameful as if a woman’s hair was shorn or shaven like she was a prostitute.

my statements would have been in accordance with the times... but of course now in this age those statements are considered mean and unmerciful

Cultural norms will always change. The way people look at Scripture will always change. That’s why interpretation should be founded upon solid scholarship not what individuals think is a literal take on a passage at a given time.

When it comes to the marriage issue,, it is not easy for me to make the stand I do... My father is on his 4th, my mother is on her 3rd, my grandmother is on her 2nd and I was ALMOST on my 2nd... before I heard a man of God preach on the issue of Marriage and Divorce.. before that time I TRULY did not have a strong biblical foundation on the issue....

I made my stand after much study and soul searching..... for me to tell you that I believe my own Father is in sin.. is NOT EASY...... but I feel compelled to face God with a clear conscience that I said it AS I SAW IT...

If God is going to judge us by obeying what we read or obeying what we should have known the Passage REALLY MEANT.. will we not all be in trouble?

Not if we have a sound foundation for seeking it’s meaning.

Again.,,, why is there no more room in the kingdom for men such as myself who believe in MERCY.. were it not for his mercy I would on my way to hell in a hurry... I LOVE MERCY I believe IN MERCY but I do not believe that MERCY is a LICENSE to deliberately disobey Gods Word.....

One thing that we can be sure of…things change. One day many of these radical liberals will be looking at their kids wondering the same thing. LOL

For the record.. if a man and woman has remarried,, I would always counsel them to remain as you are.... but with the knowledge you now have you must NEVER REMARRy.... Is that being cruel? Is that being hateful? or is that being faithful to Gods Word....

I’d have to study it out with you. If it’s a valid interpretation (yes sometimes there’s more than one way to look at something) I’d say brother, hold, hold, hold, to your convictions.

I bless all of you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ

Your Brother in Christ
[/LIST]

God bless you bro. See ya around. We’ll all understand it better by and by.

[deadeye]

Dr Vaughn...I took a look at your myspace page....and read your blog on what happened in Eden....and found it FULL of silly supposition...no real scriptural backing. I remember talking to a Brahnamite once, who when backed in a corner on the lack of scripture to prove his Satan/Eve affair doctrine, said and I quote "well, you have to read between the lines"
And that is what you do....you read between the lines, you parse, you add, you ignore what the Word really says to build your false teaching....and you lead astray weak folks easily swayed by winds of heresy.

Originally Posted by Pro31:28

No harm taken,

I was just curious about your feelings on this. I find it interesting that Women not preaching, and lack of remarriage, and no hair-cutting are three things that you decided to point out in your post. It seems as if you are looking to cause controversy.

No, those just happen to be the topics of discussion as of late