Finally a good UPC letter: By Bro Pitman

[AmazingGrace]

Originally Posted by PastorD

Could they not get a spokesman someone has heard of?

Probably the cake-taking statement for me was that "It is time for us to love truth more than people."

What good is truth if you have no one to believe it. Typical hate......

You asked both questions I was going to ask here.. too funny! I was talking to someone today and they mentioned your first question... They said the reason they cant get someone reputable to write a letter is because they are too busy out trying to beg people over. This whole thing isnt as it looks. Many are walking away now because of all the lies. Its becoming a big joke. There have been a few personal letters sent also by certain ones who were on the list wrongly... and those letters would be a real eye opener for sure. One day when this whole thing is brought to light it will shock some. As my husband told one of the members who isnt a member member... (if that made sense lol) Those who have had these things happening already should not keep these letters on the personal level but should write it and let it be heard by all so others will know exactly what these "men of God" are doing.

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by AGAPE

Forest Pentecostal Church
January 15, 2008

Dear Minister Friends:

“A Piece of Brass”
In light of the recent turn in direction of our organization (or better understood as compromise), and with the ongoing call for blind loyalty and unity in spite of the full endorsement and approval of idolatry in our midst, I am compelled to respond. Each of us appreciate the broad latitude the organization offers us to express our different views. Make no mistake about it, television is not a different view, it is sin. We are not talking about wine vs. grape juice for communion. We are not talking about the different views on Marriage, divorce, and remarriage. We are not even talking about the different views on the Rapture: Pre, Mid, or Post tribulation. We are talking about the certified endorsement of an idol in our camp.

While maintaining a right spirit and a clean heart, I have somewhat to say. Not long ago I came across a term called “Iconoclast”. Iconoclast means Image destroyer. One who opposes the veneration of images or idols. One who attacks beliefs, ideals, or institutions that support such activity. There was a religious party that made this popular in the 8th and 9th century by their opposition to the use of icons. While our times seem to call for “Political Correctness” by some and others leaning on the manual for guidance and direction, allow some of us to stand on the unchanging Word of God. The Bible is replete with scriptures on idolatry. God calls it an Abomination. He abhors it. He never supported, embraced, sympathized, or aligned himself with, nations that did. The Old Testament term is idolatry. The New Testament term is covetousness. Colossians 3:5… which is idolatry.

I humbly submit this question. If Jesus Christ walked in this earth today, would He join or support any fellowship or organization that endorsed idols in any shape or form? This letter is a call for unity. Choose ye this day whom you will serve. We need to continue to love Truth more than people. Truth reigns supreme above all men, governments, and nations. If need be, we stand alone. This is not about remaining a loyal citizen to this nation of diverse laws and peoples, but it is about our supreme love for Truth. I am a team player as long as I am on God’s team.

I have heard the weak apostate cry that television is still prohibited for our ministers to own. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. One man so aptly put it “You want the banana without the peel”. In scripture, we are reminded of Hezekiah. He was one of the royal reformers of his day. Yes, reformers. You see, iconoclasm is not reformation. It is not enough that we extirpate the false and evil. We must supplant it or replace it with true and good.

There are some dreamy theorists who argue that evil and good, like the tares and wheat, should be allowed to grow together. True virtue can only be found in the resistance of evil and in our own perpetual wrestlings with sin and evil. It is for the purpose of developing strength and mastery. There is some truth to this but not enough to redeem the argument of God’s command to separate from idolaters. His judgment falls on them that do these things or have pleasure (fellowship) with them that do these things. Romans 1:32. The truth is that there are things in which Truth and virtue cannot maintain a successful contest. There may be rare individual cases, but the church at large; NO. To hold in one’s bosom a serpent long enough is to incur a deadly bite.

Hezekiah had known too much about idolatry to allow any compromise with it. Instead of urging the people to work within the system for change, he called them into a fight to destroy the system of Baal worship. In every Camp Meeting, District Conference, Sectional Rally, General Conference, we need Hezekiahs to preach Television out of the homes and out of our midst. When is the last time you heard consistency in meeting after meeting of preaching against television? Not just a test of leadership, but a test of membership.

God did not call us to pastor just our platform or leadership. He called us to pastor our church. Leaders originate in the pew. We don’t have a mandate to have a big church as much as we have a mandate for a clean church. If that seems too strong, it probably explains why some are scratching their heads in denial or bewilderment. They are asking themselves the questions; What happened to us? Is it really this bad? Hezekiah’s supreme loyalty to Jehovah was not only an attack against idolatry, but it was a sweeping and crushing condemnation of his own father’s conduct and decisions. Hezekiah even dared to touch the most venerable relic that for eight centuries had been viewed and preserved as the nation’s most sacred memorial. I am talking about the Brazen Serpent that Moses lifted up in the wilderness. That which was innocent, even commendable in itself, had to be abandoned. As treasured and innocent as it was, it had become an idol. It was impossible to disassociate it from wickedness. Even now it is impossible to disassociate television from idolatry.

Much like the purpose of the Brazen Serpent, some people are diluted enough to think that the world can look to us on television and be saved. Hezekiah refused to call it the “Brazen Serpent”. Instead, he used the euphemism, “A piece of brass”. I ask this question. Can an institution, once used by God to point people to Christ, be reduced to just a piece of brass? God forbid! Let time be our judge. Better yet, for our sakes, allow history to judge us now.

Finally Brethren, remember in these uncertain times that Truth stands alone. Truth needs no defense. Truth is not on trial. After 2 ½ years of Paul being on trial before Felix, Felix was actually on trial before Paul. Truth trumps Family, Organizations, Traditions, and Religious Institutions of any kind. Our loyalty is to Truth and Men of Truth only. Love Truth more than you love your own selves, more than your own ministries, more than the church you pastor, more than your closest fellowship. One man recently and pathetically announced that he would not leave his particular organization for anything. I wonder if that even means the violation of truth. The best thing I found going in this world is Truth and Truth alone. For where a man’s treasure is, there will his heart be also.

Yours in Christ,
Bill Pitman
Pastor

So you think this is a good letter????????

You must not have read the letters by JJ, KH, GM, MJ or even SG. They were good letters. They made sense. They put things in proper prespective. This is NOT a "good" letter.

[AmazingGrace]

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

So you think this is a good letter????????

You must not have read the letters by JJ, KH, GM, MJ or even SG. They were good letters. They made sense. They put things in proper prespective. This is NOT a "good" letter.

For some in their own crazy way... and its very obvious by the poster not much more need be said.. HELLO!!!!!

[Joseph Miller]

This is a GREAT letter.

January 8, 2008

Johnny Godair, Kenny Godair, Larry Booker, Floyd Odom, Crawford Coon, N.J. Wilson, (sent to other concerned Ministers)



Dear Brethren:

Please forgive me, but I feel I MUST write this to you and allow others that are involved read my sentiments. If I were 30 years old, I could never write this letter; but I am 63 now and contemporary with all of you. I have shared a wonderful relationship and friendship with most of you and my heart is deeply grieved, to say the least. I do not consider myself higher or deeper in holiness than anyone else. I seek the Lord earnestly every day and ask for His Precious Blood to cover me. Just last Sunday I preached, “Cleanse Me” – “Search me oh God, and know my heart…..see if there be any wicked way in me”. I must be saved!

Brethren, I have always had great love and respect for all of you.

Brother Odom – we have known one another for years and we’ve been on a first name basis. Your ministry has been incredible in our movement and you have a special gift. Your life has been impeccable.

Brother Johnny Godair – from the time we ‘connected’ in Manila at the World Conference there has been a special love and deep admiration between us. Few men have impacted the movement or a city as you have.

Brother Crawford Coon – there is just no way that I can describe to you the love and respect we have had for your ministry, and the times we have spent together in Camp Meetings, your home and church, and elsewhere have been so awesome.

Brother Larry Booker – you have always been to us the gentle giant, with the big heart, and incredible ministry in our movement.

Brother Kenny Godair – you have had a dynamic ministry and your stand for holiness and righteousness is well known.

Brother Wilson – Sister Mallory and I had the privilege of working closely with you for more than 5 years, my middle son for 20 years. Two of my sons married girls from your church. We have had unbelievable times of close fellowship and dreams together. Men outside marveled that two strong men could get along so well together. In all the time we were together, not one unkind word passed between us. You were a perfect gentleman to me and my family and we will always appreciate that.

So, I want it understood from the outset that I have great love for you men. I do not wish to accuse you of ulterior motives. I know you have felt strongly about the passing of the resolution. I have consistently voted with you every time it came up for a vote. However, what is happening at present appears to be the forming of an unholy alliance that will surely fail. You can say, “Who is he to say these things to us”? Right now, I must take the risk, because I cannot tell you how deeply I feel that what you are insisting happen is wrong and doomed for failure. This is not what I ‘think’. This is what I know! Two wrongs don’t ever make a right, and there are several things that are just plain wrong.

It is wrong to break up families over this. I have heard all of the arguments that this is about more than TV and that our movement is full of make-up and all kinds of worldliness, and that many of our young preacher’s don’t even believe the New Birth anymore. I think I’m about as well traveled as any of you, and although we will always be fighting against the world and its influence just as Paul did, the UPCI is full of Godly men and women, both old and young, that have an intense love for this Truth. I have been incredibly encouraged as I’ve traveled in so-called liberal and conservative churches and found men following hard after Truth and Holiness more than ever before. Our Fundamental Doctrine and Articles of Faith are totally intact. We are the strongest and most powerful Apostolic movement on earth and the potential for this revelation coming to the masses has never been greater. The UPCI will always struggle to keep the world out. Sorry, but I happen to know people that said they are going to Tulsa that have a real problem with the world themselves. These are problems we all face.

Would you agree that it is wrong to lie or misrepresent? When one of the Philippine Dream Team Captains gave an interview to a recent World Report, I pointed out to the Chairman of Pentecom, and to Brother Wilson, that the article was totally bogus and just plain wrong, and that a similar report in the same magazine in 2004 contradicted the later article. This isn’t a little white lie we are talking about here. This is the most blatantly untrue article I have ever seen in print, in the church, in all my years in ministry. I never did hear from the Dream Teamer, whom I challenged directly, but only from Brother Wilson who wrote a short E-mail telling me that the mix-up was because they were ‘between editors’. Does that explain the article full of falsehoods? And instead of calling me, someone called Brother Art Martinez from the Philippines, to verify or not, the article. Everyone now knows that the article was totally false. And yet the ‘Dream Teamer’ is listed on your website as a member of your Foreign Missions Committee. Is this the kind of leadership that is forming in your organization that some of you have even denied is an organization? And is this consistent with an ‘Apostolic Alternative’?

Do you think it is right to be calling pastors all over the country talking to them for hours at a time trying to convince them to be a part of the ‘Alternative’? I have personally had men call me to tell me they had been offered positions on Counsels or Committees and then were surprised to see their names show up on lists that they never approved. One told me that he felt like he was being ‘bought’. I have seen letters from some of you that seemed to indicate you would not do what you are now doing. Whether it is the intent or not, this is causing confusion in the minds of some and in the ones I’ve talked to, has caused them to change their minds about Tulsa. It seems to me if the ‘Alternative’ is necessary and viable that men would be clamoring to be a part and that you wouldn’t have to resort to a ‘Full Court Press’ to try to convince men to come. This is not a ‘movement’ that is starting. This appears to be a desperate attempt to divide the body.

As long as I can remember, the UPCI has been a movement that has granted great liberty to preach, teach, publish, etc. We are a diverse group and there is strength in diversity, but not in disunity. Diversity without unity is like having eggs, flour, shorting, sugar, etc. on a plate and calling it a cake. You don’t have a cake until everything is blended together. This is why within the UPCI structure you can have meetings like PSR (West Coast), Landmark, Impact, No Limits, East Coast, Because of the Times, Steadfast, on and on. Many of these meetings and others will continue to evolve where the convictions and hearts of men can be dispensed with no strings attached. And the passing of the resolution has not negatively impacted these meetings or my local church even one iota. But local church members, who do not understand what is going on, have been stirred and unsettled because this Tulsa news has filtered out. When you have all of these meetings where men can still get together and preach their convictions and concerns, you tell me….why do we need Tulsa? You may like me or hate me….obviously I am not running for political office here. As I see it, the ‘Alternative’ is not about Holiness….it’s about politics.

Now, I am not naïve, I know that you six have crossed over the line, the dye has been cast, and you cannot be un-convinced. But I will still boldly suggest for you brethren to reconsider what you are doing. How can you possibly believe that you can now have more influence for preaching righteousness and holiness from outside the body. We need to stay together!

Lastly, since the birth of Ruth and Verena Cady in 1984, they have shared much. They shared the same womb before their birth, and the same room after birth. But the bond between Ruthie and Verena goes even further. They share the same heart. Their bodies are fused together from the sternum to the waist. Though they have separate nervous systems and distinct personalities, they are sustained by the same, singular three chamber heart. Neither could survive without the other. Since separation is not an option, cooperation becomes an obligation. They’ve learned to make up for each other’s weaknesses. Brethren, we need each other! You may feel that what you are doing is irreversible, but that’s not true.

This may have been an effort in futility as far as you responding , but if it helps others to see things a little more clearly and understand that our potential as a movement toward holiness and evangelism is now stronger than it’s ever been, I’ll be happy.

Yours in His Service,

Gordon Mallory

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by AGAPE

Forest Pentecostal Church
January 15, 2008

Dear Minister Friends:



Finally Brethren, remember in these uncertain times that Truth stands alone. Truth needs no defense. Truth is not on trial. After 2 ½ years of Paul being on trial before Felix, Felix was actually on trial before Paul. Truth trumps Family, Organizations, Traditions, and Religious Institutions of any kind. Our loyalty is to Truth and Men of Truth only. Love Truth more than you love your own selves, more than your own ministries, more than the church you pastor, more than your closest fellowship. One man recently and pathetically announced that he would not leave his particular organization for anything. I wonder if that even means the violation of truth. The best thing I found going in this world is Truth and Truth alone. For where a man’s treasure is, there will his heart be also.

Yours in Christ,
Bill Pitman
Pastor

It appears to me that this man's closing paragraph indicates that he has an idol built up in his mind. The idol is the man's own perception of what is "truth" as he directly relates it to the use/nonuse of television. His idol is not that of truth but instead his own perception of truth. He is a worshipper of his own notions of truth.

Pure truth absent of the love of God is a bright, bright day of sun-bathed light. It is beautiful to look upon. But, without the heat, the warmth of the same sounce of the light, to warm the earth, the ground is frozen hard, the trees are leafless, the grass is dead and the earth is unable to yield its fruit. All the light of truth is lifeless without the heat of the love of God to spring forth the life of the seed in the earth.

The man contends not for truth, but instead, he is contending for only his perception of truth...an IDOL...his own idol. But, don't tell him that. He would think thee mad.

[seguidordejesus]

This letter is ridiculous. He puts TV advertising as more important than whether someone is committing adultery? That's really what the "diverse" views of divorce and remarriage are all about! Give me a break!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by AGAPE

Any Biblical response??? Is it unfair to ask for scriptures???

It's a little hard to find a scripture for television that doesn't include the Internet. Maybe you could help me out here?

[tv1a]

Watch out. A legalist can't stand it when you point the obvious. The Pittman Pout had nothing to offer.

Originally Posted by chseeads

If you weren't talking about it on the Internet, then there would probably be some Biblical responses given that would be against TV....but we can't talk about that on here, because then we'd be hypocrites.

[tv1a]

It proves he believes his own dillusion. It's the brazen serpent syndrome.

Originally Posted by Apprehended

It appears to me that this man's closing paragraph indicates that he has an idol built up in his mind. The idol is the man's own perception of what is "truth" as he directly relates it to the use/nonuse of television. His idol is not that of truth but instead his own perception of truth. He is a worshipper of his own notions of truth.

Pure truth absent of the love of God is a bright, bright day of sun-bathed light. It is beautiful to look upon. But, without the heat, the warmth of the same sounce of the light, to warm the earth, the ground is frozen hard, the trees are leafless, the grass is dead and the earth is unable to yield its fruit. All the light of truth is lifeless without the heat of the love of God to spring forth the life of the seed in the earth.

The man contends not for truth, but instead, he is contending for only his perception of truth...an IDOL...his own idol. But, don't tell him that. He would think thee mad.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by AGAPE

Forest Pentecostal Church
January 15, 2008

Dear Minister Friends:

“A Piece of Brass”
In light of the recent turn in direction of our organization (or better understood as compromise), and with the ongoing call for blind loyalty and unity in spite of the full endorsement and approval of idolatry in our midst, I am compelled to respond. Each of us appreciate the broad latitude the organization offers us to express our different views. Make no mistake about it, television is not a different view, it is sin. We are not talking about wine vs. grape juice for communion. We are not talking about the different views on Marriage, divorce, and remarriage. We are not even talking about the different views on the Rapture: Pre, Mid, or Post tribulation. We are talking about the certified endorsement of an idol in our camp.

While maintaining a right spirit and a clean heart, I have somewhat to say. Not long ago I came across a term called “Iconoclast”. Iconoclast means Image destroyer. One who opposes the veneration of images or idols. One who attacks beliefs, ideals, or institutions that support such activity. There was a religious party that made this popular in the 8th and 9th century by their opposition to the use of icons. While our times seem to call for “Political Correctness” by some and others leaning on the manual for guidance and direction, allow some of us to stand on the unchanging Word of God. The Bible is replete with scriptures on idolatry. God calls it an Abomination. He abhors it. He never supported, embraced, sympathized, or aligned himself with, nations that did. The Old Testament term is idolatry. The New Testament term is covetousness. Colossians 3:5… which is idolatry.

I humbly submit this question. If Jesus Christ walked in this earth today, would He join or support any fellowship or organization that endorsed idols in any shape or form? This letter is a call for unity. Choose ye this day whom you will serve. We need to continue to love Truth more than people. Truth reigns supreme above all men, governments, and nations. If need be, we stand alone. This is not about remaining a loyal citizen to this nation of diverse laws and peoples, but it is about our supreme love for Truth. I am a team player as long as I am on God’s team.

I have heard the weak apostate cry that television is still prohibited for our ministers to own. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. One man so aptly put it “You want the banana without the peel”. In scripture, we are reminded of Hezekiah. He was one of the royal reformers of his day. Yes, reformers. You see, iconoclasm is not reformation. It is not enough that we extirpate the false and evil. We must supplant it or replace it with true and good.

There are some dreamy theorists who argue that evil and good, like the tares and wheat, should be allowed to grow together. True virtue can only be found in the resistance of evil and in our own perpetual wrestlings with sin and evil. It is for the purpose of developing strength and mastery. There is some truth to this but not enough to redeem the argument of God’s command to separate from idolaters. His judgment falls on them that do these things or have pleasure (fellowship) with them that do these things. Romans 1:32. The truth is that there are things in which Truth and virtue cannot maintain a successful contest. There may be rare individual cases, but the church at large; NO. To hold in one’s bosom a serpent long enough is to incur a deadly bite.

Hezekiah had known too much about idolatry to allow any compromise with it. Instead of urging the people to work within the system for change, he called them into a fight to destroy the system of Baal worship. In every Camp Meeting, District Conference, Sectional Rally, General Conference, we need Hezekiahs to preach Television out of the homes and out of our midst. When is the last time you heard consistency in meeting after meeting of preaching against television? Not just a test of leadership, but a test of membership.

God did not call us to pastor just our platform or leadership. He called us to pastor our church. Leaders originate in the pew. We don’t have a mandate to have a big church as much as we have a mandate for a clean church. If that seems too strong, it probably explains why some are scratching their heads in denial or bewilderment. They are asking themselves the questions; What happened to us? Is it really this bad? Hezekiah’s supreme loyalty to Jehovah was not only an attack against idolatry, but it was a sweeping and crushing condemnation of his own father’s conduct and decisions. Hezekiah even dared to touch the most venerable relic that for eight centuries had been viewed and preserved as the nation’s most sacred memorial. I am talking about the Brazen Serpent that Moses lifted up in the wilderness. That which was innocent, even commendable in itself, had to be abandoned. As treasured and innocent as it was, it had become an idol. It was impossible to disassociate it from wickedness. Even now it is impossible to disassociate television from idolatry.

Much like the purpose of the Brazen Serpent, some people are diluted enough to think that the world can look to us on television and be saved. Hezekiah refused to call it the “Brazen Serpent”. Instead, he used the euphemism, “A piece of brass”. I ask this question. Can an institution, once used by God to point people to Christ, be reduced to just a piece of brass? God forbid! Let time be our judge. Better yet, for our sakes, allow history to judge us now.

Finally Brethren, remember in these uncertain times that Truth stands alone. Truth needs no defense. Truth is not on trial. After 2 ½ years of Paul being on trial before Felix, Felix was actually on trial before Paul. Truth trumps Family, Organizations, Traditions, and Religious Institutions of any kind. Our loyalty is to Truth and Men of Truth only. Love Truth more than you love your own selves, more than your own ministries, more than the church you pastor, more than your closest fellowship. One man recently and pathetically announced that he would not leave his particular organization for anything. I wonder if that even means the violation of truth. The best thing I found going in this world is Truth and Truth alone. For where a man’s treasure is, there will his heart be also.

Yours in Christ,
Bill Pitman
Pastor

I think it's funny that he calls TV a "sin", but allows that it's ok to have different viewpoints in divorce. Just goes to show how skewed some folks' thinking is.