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10-04-2011, 04:17 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 47
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Re: Why I Left the UPC
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Originally Posted by Praxeas
You were the one that made the assertion without giving a reason why organizations are a cult. You merely stated it but did not substantiate it
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My basis for comparing them to having a cult like assimilation is based off of the idea that many begin to put more faith in their org than God. They become driven by a spirit that IMO is not of God. A GS begins to fulfil the roll of God and no longer the roll of shepherd. Only God can save us but we are all lost if so and so gets elected than we are all lost. Who saved us in the first place. Their are men who look at the originator of this thread as backslid as a result of his leaving. His views on salvation have not changed nor has his allegiance to God bit because he is now hearing and obeying the voice of God and not a district leader he is a compromiser and backsliders.
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10-04-2011, 04:20 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: Why I Left the UPC
Quote:
Originally Posted by answers
My basis for comparing them to having a cult like assimilation is based off of the idea that many begin to put more faith in their org than God. They become driven by a spirit that IMO is not of God. A GS begins to fulfil the roll of God and no longer the roll of shepherd. Only God can save us but we are all lost if so and so gets elected than we are all lost. Who saved us in the first place. Their are men who look at the originator of this thread as backslid as a result of his leaving. His views on salvation have not changed nor has his allegiance to God bit because he is now hearing and obeying the voice of God and not a district leader he is a compromiser and backsliders.
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Here you speak of "many" but in the other post you spoke of organizations themselves
Second, it's your unfounded assertion that "many" put more faith in their org than in God but even if so that does not make the organization a cult
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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10-04-2011, 04:31 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 337
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Re: Why I Left the UPC
Quote:
Originally Posted by answers
My basis for comparing them to having a cult like assimilation is based off of the idea that many begin to put more faith in their org than God. They become driven by a spirit that IMO is not of God. A GS begins to fulfil the roll of God and no longer the roll of shepherd. Only God can save us but we are all lost if so and so gets elected than we are all lost. Who saved us in the first place. Their are men who look at the originator of this thread as backslid as a result of his leaving. His views on salvation have not changed nor has his allegiance to God bit because he is now hearing and obeying the voice of God and not a district leader he is a compromiser and backsliders.
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Quite a condemnation of the thread starter:
He's a middle-aged man who, after years of preaching and pastoring, is just beginning to hear and obey the voice of God and not a district leader.
__________________
". . . as I suspect was true for those teaching Scriptures, I found that my students often felt they knew the Constitution without having really read it. They were accustomed to picking out phrases that they'd heard and using them to bolster their immediate arguments, or ignoring passages that seemed to contradict their views." Barack Obama in "The Audacity of Hope"
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10-04-2011, 04:32 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 47
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Re: Why I Left the UPC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
Here you speak of "many" but in the other post you spoke of organizations themselves
Second, it's your unfounded assertion that "many" put more faith in their org than in God but even if so that does not make the organization a cult
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Again, IMO, any time your religious ideas are founded off of man made ideas and extra-biblical by-laws things get a bit more cultish. I am aware this happens beyond orgs. Take Epley and his group for instance. To be save you must shave?! How is an idea like that not cultish in it's extra biblical fOunding.
They won't get to heaven through this church is another statement made as well. So I retract my earlier statement of "all" and address it more appropriately as many and this does not exclude just org's.
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10-04-2011, 04:35 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: Why I Left the UPC
Quote:
Originally Posted by answers
Again, IMO, any time your religious ideas are founded off of man made ideas and extra-biblical by-laws things get a bit more cultish. I am aware this happens beyond orgs. Take Epley and his group for instance. To be save you must shave?! How is an idea like that not cultish in it's extra biblical fOunding.
They won't get to heaven through this church is another statement made as well. So I retract my earlier statement of "all" and address it more appropriately as many and this does not exclude just org's.
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Again the assertion that all organizations are cults is absurd.
Again you went from speaking of organizations to individuals and how they view organizations
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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10-04-2011, 04:46 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 47
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Re: Why I Left the UPC
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Originally Posted by Charnock
I left because I felt the Lord leading me to leave. Leaving allows me to follow Him, and to preach what He tells me to
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanas
Quite a condemnation of the thread starter:
He's a middle-aged man who, after years of preaching and pastoring, is just beginning to hear and obey the voice of God and not a district leader.
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 keep up
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10-04-2011, 04:51 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 47
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Re: Why I Left the UPC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
Again the assertion that all organizations are cults is absurd.
Again you went from speaking of organizations to individuals and how they view organizations
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I'll repeat it one more time for the cheap seats. I retract "all" and stand corrected. "Many" is more appropriate. Likewise, individual church and fellowships are susceptible to this mentality as well.
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10-04-2011, 05:05 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 863
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Re: Why I Left the UPC
Quote:
Originally Posted by answers
I'll repeat it one more time for the cheap seats. I retract "all" and stand corrected. "Many" is more appropriate. Likewise, individual church and fellowships are susceptible to this mentality as well.
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Time to stay in our homes and not socialize. Oh wait, the bible addresses that also. "Forsake not the gathering of yourselves together, even more so as you see that day approaching."
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10-04-2011, 06:33 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,840
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Re: Why I Left the UPC
Quote:
Originally Posted by answers
I'll repeat it one more time for the cheap seats. I retract "all" and stand corrected. "Many" is more appropriate. Likewise, individual church and fellowships are susceptible to this mentality as well.
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I can accept "many". It was "all" that blew my mind. 
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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10-04-2011, 06:36 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 47
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Re: Why I Left the UPC
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
I can accept "many". It was "all" that blew my mind. |
Sometimes eggageration of the statistics is what keeps a thread on the front page. At least 86% of the time. 
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