For those that left the UPC...

[Mirth1981]

Hi...I don't intend for this thread to be started as a debate. I would just like to hear stories from those that have left the UPC.

Specifically...What made you finally decide to leave? Was it difficult? Were you able to find a church that wasn't "easy believism" but yet one that didn't enforce extra-biblical principles where you could go and worship God in your own way? Do you have any regrets? Anything you wish you had done differently? How is your walk with God now? Do you still suffer from self condemnation and feel brainwashed?

I have been really struggling in my spirit lately. I'm terrified of leaving the UPC because of the repercussions it will cause in my life (and for my husband, who is a minister). Yet I know feeling this way just reinforces the fact that I need to "get out." I still believe in oneness, baptism, and the Holy Ghost. What I don't believe in is man made "standards" that create an environment that breeds judgmentalism and pharisetical saints. Also every church I've been in...I feel controlled....even manipulated. I can't do that anymore. But I don't know how to get out.

I hope this is okay...and that I'm not breaking any rules by posting this. I have been reading this forum lately, and it seems like there are many very balanced people on here. This seemed like a good place to go for support.

Thank you in advance.

[mizpeh]

Have you read these recent threads?

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=28788

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=29925

If you feel this way, that you are being brainwashed, manipulated, and controlled,then you should leave and leave in love.

It's hard for me to believe that "every" church that has a UPC licensed pastor is like this since my pastor is affiliated with the UPC and is not like that. I hope you won't be broadbrushing all UPC ministers according to your experiences. I've had three different pastors, all associated with the UPC, in three different churches in three different locations and none of them were controlling. I just want to show that not ALL and EVERY UPC minister is like the ones you have known.

[Truthseeker]

What does your husband think?

[*AQuietPlace*]

I'm in the same place you're in, and some days I feel like my head is going to explode from the pressure.

I wish it didn't have to be so tough. Wish people could allow you to follow God in the way you feel you should, without taking it so personally that you don't believe the way they do.

[Sam]

In 1963 or 1964 we left a UPC church to start going to an ALJC church.

We went to the ALJC church because it was smaller and the people had a real attitude of love toward one another. It was sort of a "culture shock" to us because of the "hair." At the UPC church it seemed that most of the women kept their hair short enough to manage but long enough to put into some kind of pentecostal hair do. At the ALJC church many of the women had hair that was obviously cut and dyed. Both the UPC pastor (Dist. Supt) and the ALJC pastor and the members of both churches had televisions. TV was not an issue in that part of Ohio. Whereas the UPC church ladies wore rings of all kinds and watches, some of the ALJC ladies might wear a chain or small necklace or bracelet in addition to rings and watches but neither group wore ear rings. The ladies at the ALJC church wore pants and sleeveless clothes but not to church. Some ladies at the UPC church did the same. Kids at the ALJC church went to the prom.

The ALJC church had split off from the UPC church in 1945 before the ALJC had even been formed. I don't know what organization (if any) it was in 1945. At one time I think it was AMC (Apostolic Missionary Council). I don't know if that organization even exists any more.

After we left the UPC church a rumor went around that we were getting divorced. In time, folks from the UPC church began to speak to us if they saw us out somewhere.

A few years later that UPC church had another split and became two rival UPC churches in the same city with separate youth rallies, etc. People started coming from both of those churches to our ALJC church. One of the churches, the group that left the pastor who was still there from 1945, began to fellowship us.

Later the ALJC church had a split and a new UPC church developed in a nearby (30 mile away) town from that group that left. Another group left the ALJC church and has a small church nearby. Still later the ALJC senior pastor/bishop died, his son resigned and took a UPC church in FL and a UPC pastor took over. So, now we have 3 UPC churches here in town with folks migrating back and forth.

Oh, and that original church that sufferered the split in 1945. Well, it was established in 1920 or 1925 when the pastor came from Indiana and took over a group that split off another church here in Cincinnati. I assume the splits in 1945, and 1968 were just him reaping what he sowed in the 1920's when he took over a split church.

Since 1992 I have just gone to a trinity church (one from 1992 to 2006 and another from 2006 till the present). I feel much better about the people I associate with and much better about myself after getting out of the UPC. By now many of the folks in those various UPC splits and factions have either forgotten me or have accepted me or have just written me off as reprobate.

[mfblume]

Is this really a DEEP WATERS issue? Or just getting into deep water? lol

[Mirth1981]

I apologize if I started this thread in the wrong area. Or if I shouldn't have started it at all. I won't be offended if it needs to be moved or deleted.

I'm not trying to say every UPC church is wrong, or that every UPC minister is wrong. Sorry if I came across that way. My husband is a minister...and he is a good man, with a sincere love for God. He really doesn't know what to think right now since I told him how I have been feeling. I think he feels crushed that I feel this way, but at the same time he doesn't know how to explain the "holiness standards" that are enforced in UPC churches.

Right now, I am leaning towards just "toughing" it out at my current church..but I don't know how long I can do that for. And I feel like a bit of a hypocrite because I don't agree with what is taught.

I love the Lord and I'm so thankful for His mercy in my life.

[Mirth1981]

And thank you to those that have responded so far...I appreciate hearing other people's experiences.

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

What made you finally decide to leave?

I didn't leave a UPC, but did leave an independent oneness church. There were a variety of things that led up to me leaving my church, including heavy amounts of labelling and repeated public angry outbursts from someone in leadership. But the final straw isn't something I can talk about right now.

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

Was it difficult?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

Were you able to find a church that wasn't "easy believism" but yet one that didn't enforce extra-biblical principles where you could go and worship God in your own way?

I've decided that I know what I believe and will continue to believe it no matter where I go to church. There came a point where things were bad enough in that church that I realized if I didn't leave there I'd lose out with God. I would have lost my faith had I stayed there. I left one church building, not an organization.

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

Do you have any regrets?

I wish things had turned out in a way that I could have moved out of the area, not just left that building. I wish I could have told people good-bye without jeopardizing their standing in the church. I wish I had been able to locate some of the others that had left, and that I hadn't ever shunned anyone when I was one of them.

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

Anything you wish you had done differently?

I wish I'd shut off my phone for awhile and not gotten angry or defensive when I got the calls, "Mary, why???" but been able to answer calmly and in love.

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

How is your walk with God now?

Better than when I left but not where I want it to be yet. I have struggled for several years (in church) to read my bible and pray... because bible reading and prayer were demanded, and because many verses were used to condemn us there, and I still hear those sermons when I read very much Bible at all.

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

Do you still suffer from self condemnation and feel brainwashed?

Not nearly as much self condemnation. I spent quite a bit of time reviewing scriptures and seeing what verses often used to condemn us really said before I left though, as well as researching what God expected with regards to pastoral authority, obedience, standards, and conduct. And I started getting a new circle of friends before I left, to soften the blow some. But I had stopped feeling a lot of the condemnation while I was in. I went sort of numb. But the brainwashing, yes, in a way, because I still struggle with words and phrases, especially verses, that were used to hurt and demean us there. It is better though.

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

I have been really struggling in my spirit lately. I'm terrified of leaving the UPC because of the repercussions it will cause in my life (and for my husband, who is a minister). Yet I know feeling this way just reinforces the fact that I need to "get out." I still believe in oneness, baptism, and the Holy Ghost. What I don't believe in is man made "standards" that create an environment that breeds judgmentalism and pharisetical saints. Also every church I've been in...I feel controlled....even manipulated. I can't do that anymore. But I don't know how to get out.

I hope this is okay...and that I'm not breaking any rules by posting this. I have been reading this forum lately, and it seems like there are many very balanced people on here. This seemed like a good place to go for support.

Thank you in advance.

Your situation is different than mine since your husband wants to stay and I left for possibly very different reasons.

One thing I've tried to do is keep a balanced outlook, and tried to remain as considerate as possible of those who are still going to that church. I also keep in mind not all of them were a part of the things that I had to get away from. (Some were very against those things but just as scared as I was.) Not every church is the same. There are good oneness churches, but right now I'm limited in where I can go.

I also won't participate in forums on which people promote hatred or outrage against Pentecostals as a group, any more than I will sit on a pew and ever again listen to a pastor tell a 13 year old she'll be raped if her skirt isn't a certain number of inches below her knee or a new convert that he'll go to hell if his pants don't come past his ankles. You are right, AFF has some very balanced people on it.


May God grant you peace, direction, and wisdom through this decision.

[POWERUP]

It really is a bad place to be in. Sincerly! I was a minister in the UPC from 91' to 2007.
Have a lot of family that is still UPC or strong Independant church.

It is a decesion that you and yours only can make. There will be some who will say
that the reason you feel the way you do is cause you need to line-up!!

I feel in your situation that is not true. If you are waiting on someone to REALLY
explain standards to you. It won't happen. They can't.

Some will even say that you are going to bring your husband down cause you
won't to chop your hair off, wear those horrible pants, put on a little blush.... you
get the pictire. But we all know what you mean.

Just don't let anyone make the decesion for you! You follow your heart.

Also don't let this come in between you and your husband. Trust me. You guys
will work it out.

I don't have a problem with someone wanting to stay the way they are. I respect
that. But it drives me nuts when people are so close-minded. You know. There
way, or the highway!!!

However.......................I wouldn't take nothing for the Journey we have taken.