Seconds of Pre Embryonic Life of Jesus Christ?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Tex I wonder why Jesus in the flesh never said "I am God". Not once. I have always wondered about this. I wonder why Jesus in the flesh took the time to go pray in the garden - to who? Why does the word made flesh who was God go off and pray in the wilderness and to who does he pray to?

This kid may be right or may be wrong who knows. But John 1 does not explain embryos and prayer times - by God to God?

Small wonder your peers don't and never do touch that question. The answer seems to underpin the whole basic belief set. It does need to be answered someday.

Jesus in Acts when Stephen was stoned wasn't sitting on the throne. He was "at the right hand". Jesus wasn't sitting on "the throne" in Revelations either. So this begs answer to the open and unending question. WHO is Jesus really? He is Not what is taught behind your pulpits. Does not add up. He is different from God however He is fully empowered to represent God's word seems to be the closest fit.

Which question are you referring to? The "why didn't Jesus just say He was God" question? Or the "how or why does God pray to God" one?

As for the pulpits, remember there are 73 sects and all but one are doomed.

[Sean]

Walks in Islam. Would you like to discuss my view of the Godhead and refute it?

I would like that very much, because I need to bounce it off intelligent folks.

You are beating up Mike, but can you beat up my view?

Thanks, please question me about anything you can think of.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

My point was never "standing" or "sitting". My point was "different" and "separate" and "subject to". Always has been. The passages don't even say "equal". Why would the writers be so careful about specifically saying that?

There is God, and there is Jesus, nowhere more clearly separated with one subject to the other than in the book of John. The power given to Jesus is questioned nowhere in this thread but consistently from the beginning to the end of the book it is "given" by God.

So why catcall this kid who is going through the exact same verses trying to work it out? He says two different entities, you guys make fun and bring no verses to clarify this? I ask the same, you bring verses that support the kid's position.

Something doesn't add up to what is being taught and eventually it will have to be clarified so that it all makes sense. John 1 with personal interpretations does not constitute an answer.

Of course there is a distinction. It's God and it's His incarnation.

And Phil 2 says Jesus thought it not robbery to be equal to God. We read he took upon him the form of a servant. Jesus existed before he was in flesh. Revelation 1 explains the Son of God is the Almighty. The only explanation for all these statements to be true is 1 Tim 3:16 - God was manifest in flesh and for the first time actually seen of angels.

Hebrews 1 has the son of God being called God.

Hebrews 1:8 KJV But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Are you really trying to work this out, or fighting the concept? I'm not making fun of anyone, BTW.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Esaias

BTW, I hear there are dangerous times in Saudi. I hope you are safe?

Exiting. Home by March. Lunch? Abe's, Clear Lake City and Hwy 3

Least I can do for giving you a hard time here and there 😬

Fair answer above - thanks

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Exiting. Home by March. Lunch? Abe's, Clear Lake City and Hwy 3

Least I can do for giving you a hard time here and there 😬

Fair answer above - thanks

lol I done moved up north, halfway between Dallas and Texarkana. I've still got family and business down in Houston, so maybe I'll take you up on the offer. But maybe you like Sicilian? Franca's in Webster, Nasa 1 right next to the bypass? Old school real Italian, and on my dime?

And neither of us eat pork so we won't have to fight over the menu.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Esaias

lol I done moved up north, halfway between Dallas and Texarkana. I've still got family and business down in Houston, so maybe I'll take you up on the offer. But maybe you like Sicilian? Franca's in Webster, Nasa 1 right next to the bypass? Old school real Italian, and on my dime?

And neither of us eat pork so we won't have to fight over the menu.

LOL No room to talk on that - my oldest graduated TT in Lubbuck then started work in Midland.

Might as well be in New York

Franca's is good - I like the place. We were in Bay Knoll, it was practically around the corner.

[Sean]

Of course there is a distinction. It's God and it's His incarnation.

AKA....


Of course there is a distinction. It's God and it's His self.



Mike is distinct from his self.....LOL

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sean

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.



Aaaah, yes. I agree with what Jesus said about his Father.

Dont you all?

Is the son and the Father the same person?

Mike, do you mean this distinction?

[Sean]

Was the "himself" of the Son, God's self?

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Sean

Walks in Islam. Would you like to discuss my view of the Godhead and refute it?

I would like that very much, because I need to bounce it off intelligent folks.

You are beating up Mike, but can you beat up my view?

Thanks, please question me about anything you can think of.

I'm not beating up Mike LOL. Just adding a few ommitted details to his exampled verses.

Your views are interesting and your points are tough. Some of those passages have been a thorn here for years and I read everything written ever attributed to Jesus or translated about Jesus working it out. Stuff long thought burned back when the biblical books were assembled. Banned gospels, all of it. The interpretations offered in answer seem contradictory to me. Been the source of some bitter words here. Not my intention today.

I didn't chime in to debate for sure. It's just an interesting thread.