But the sin is not forgiven until we ask it of Him. This notion that we are required to forgive someone before they ask seems like a dangerous road to go down, in my opinion, because God does not forgive our sin until we ask Him to, so why would He expect us to do something He doesn't do? I can see this leading to someone thinking they can do whatever they want, using the reasoning that they are already forgiven for it. Anyone who sins without asking for forgiveness from God is only living in a deferred state of judgement.
You missed my post again.
God put out a blanket policy for forgiveness when Jesus died. We simply as individuals have to sign up for it to take effect for us. The blood was only shed once, and it was shed for the whole world. Read Rom 5. I believe it is plain that Gods forgiveness was extended at calvary to the whole world. But we do not enter into the benefit of it until we bow the knee.
That is why I stated that if someone does me wrong, I am to forgive them whether they receive it or ask for it. In doing so, I free myself from hurting. Jesus forgave without being asked when he was on the cross. Stephen forgave when he was being stoned.
God put out a blanket policy for forgiveness when Jesus died. We simply as individuals have to sign up for it to take effect for us. The blood was only shed once, and it was shed for the whole world. Read Rom 5. I believe it is plain that Gods forgiveness was extended at calvary to the whole world. But we do not enter into the benefit of it until we bow the knee.
That is why I stated that if someone does me wrong, I am to forgive them whether they receive it or ask for it. In doing so, I free myself from hurting. Jesus forgave without being asked when he was on the cross. Stephen forgave when he was being stoned.
I did not miss your post. You are saying you were forgiven 2000 years ago. I am contending you were not forgiven until you asked for it from Him. If you were already forgiven then there would have been no need for you to ask in the first place. You are saying that we are required to forgive before we are asked. If that is the case then God has a higher standard for us than He has for Himself. Your sin stays on your record until it is wiped clean. That does not happen until you ask for forgiveness.
From my point of view as a woman, I think any bad human example is going to skew my view of God. It doesn't have to be a male.
As Christians we love and forgive. If I am not that kind of Christian woman my kids or anyone associated with my witness is going to have a skewed image of God because I taught them forgiveness and love and didn't exemplify it, as way of example.
My kids know that I love them to death!
Pressing my other *way forgotten* post was in response to Rico.
At that part of the thread we were discussing "fathers" so I shared a particular testimony in order to bring up another point.
I was hoping it would minister to those struggling with those issues we were discussing, and may open a window to a bigger picture.
Yes mom and dads can hurt our view of God, but right then someone was hurting about their dad, and Rico didnt quite understand my post, since it got mixed up in the shuffle of things.
I have an experience I would like to share with you:
Several years ago there was a man in our church. I will call him Brother X. Brother X was very prejudiced against black folks. Well, you all know my wife is half black and us Puerto Ricans have black roots too.
Anyway, Brother X and I started working together and things were not going well. We had some issues getting along and our personalities just seemed to clash. After some counseling from my pastor, I decided not to work for this man any more. I followed the instructions my pastor gave me, and when Bro. X found out I had quit him in the middle of a job, he came to my house and cussed out my wife and me, calling me the N word and anything else he could think. I was not there and my poor wife had to endure this scene by herself.
When I found out about it I was livid. All I knew to do was to look for direction from the Bible. I found the scriptures in Matt 18 and started following what they said to do. Afterall, we are supposed to be apostolic and do what the Bible says to do.
I went to Bro. X privately to ask him about what had happened when he came to my house. We were in the church parking lot at the time, and he started cussing me out and called me the N word to my face. In fact, we almost got into a fight because I was going to knock him on his backside when he said that to me. I didn't, partly because an elder from the church had witnessed what had happened and intervened.
I decided I would go the pastor and let him know what had happened. I had my scriptures and everything. The pastor told me that, yes, according to the Bible I had a case for bringing this man before the entire church over what he had done and his refusal to apologize.
However, I also had another option, and this is the one I chose. The pastor explained to me that he knew this man's tempermant and knew he would end up leaving the church if I brought what had happened before them, for them to decide. I also had the option of simply forgiving Bro. X. I chose this option, for the sake of church peace and for the sake of Bro. X. I did not want to let something like the ignorance that had been put into him by his father be the reason for him leaving the Church. To this day Bro X and I have not spoken to each other, I am not angry with him, and am not bitter over what happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
I think you handled that great. When people do things because of learned behavior it's just better to walk away.
I simply cannot fathom Christians treating humans beings in the way it has happened in this country. It still floors me. My husband told me things his grandfather has said. I told him, "I'm sure if your grandfather was alive I wouldn't like him very much."
But each adult is responsible for his/her own behavior. I don't think it matters much how a person was taught as a child... once they become an adult and see/learn a better and/or right/proper way, they become entirely responsible for their OWN behavior.
I can't fathom treating anyone the way that I was treated as a child. Nor can I imagine saying to others many of the things I heard as a kid by my step-dad. I just don't buy that as an excuse.
__________________
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
1Pe 5:6-7 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
Tit 3:2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
I have an experience I would like to share with you:
Several years ago there was a man in our church. I will call him Brother X. Brother X was very prejudiced against black folks. Well, you all know my wife is half black and us Puerto Ricans have black roots too.
Anyway, Brother X and I started working together and things were not going well. We had some issues getting along and our personalities just seemed to clash. After some counseling from my pastor, I decided not to work for this man any more. I followed the instructions my pastor gave me, and when Bro. X found out I had quit him in the middle of a job, he came to my house and cussed out my wife and me, calling me the N word and anything else he could think. I was not there and my poor wife had to endure this scene by herself.
When I found out about it I was livid. All I knew to do was to look for direction from the Bible. I found the scriptures in Matt 18 and started following what they said to do. Afterall, we are supposed to be apostolic and do what the Bible says to do.
I went to Bro. X privately to ask him about what had happened when he came to my house. We were in the church parking lot at the time, and he started cussing me out and called me the N word to my face. In fact, we almost got into a fight because I was going to knock him on his backside when he said that to me. I didn't, partly because an elder from the church had witnessed what had happened and intervened.
I decided I would go the pastor and let him know what had happened. I had my scriptures and everything. The pastor told me that, yes, according to the Bible I had a case for bringing this man before the entire church over what he had done and his refusal to apologize.
However, I also had another option, and this is the one I chose. The pastor explained to me that he knew this man's tempermant and knew he would end up leaving the church if I brought what had happened before them, for them to decide. I also had the option of simply forgiving Bro. X. I chose this option, for the sake of church peace and for the sake of Bro. X. I did not want to let something like the ignorance that had been put into him by his father be the reason for him leaving the Church. To this day Bro X and I have not spoken to each other, I am not angry with him, and am not bitter over what happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity
Perhaps.
Absolutely agree. But to purposely ignore a person? It's usually indicative that there's still an issue going on.
Is avoiding the same as ignoring?
__________________
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
1Pe 5:6-7 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
Tit 3:2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Pressing my other *way forgotten* post was in response to Rico.
At that part of the thread we were discussing "fathers" so I shared a particular testimony in order to bring up another point.
I was hoping it would minister to those struggling with those issues we were discussing, and may open a window to a bigger picture.
Yes mom and dads can hurt our view of God, but right then someone was hurting about their dad, and Rico didnt quite understand my post, since it got mixed up in the shuffle of things.
Actually, Jeanie, I was trying to agree with your post, in the way, that it doesn't have to be a disappointment from only a man to have a skewed image of God. I think Rico was making that point.
I'm just saying as we are "epistles read of all men", we have a responsibility to be as much like Him as we can be or people we are reaching won't get it. They won't understand Him. If we are hard, they will view God as hard, etc.
But each adult is responsible for his/her own behavior. I don't think it matters much how a person was taught as a child... once they become an adult and see/learn a better and/or right/proper way, they become entirely responsible for their OWN behavior.
I can't fathom treating anyone the way that I was treated as a child. Nor can I imagine saying to others many of the things I heard as a kid by my step-dad. I just don't buy that as an excuse.
I see your point. I will have to maintain that we do carry much of the characteristics, mannerisms, thought pattern, etc. from our parents. Some draw a line when it comes to the emulation and some are just flat out mirrors of their parents. lol
I am thankful you took the negative and displayed a positive way. Some people just aren't able to get past it.
So, when I say, "there is learned behaviour", it stands to reason that it is true in many people's lives. Sad, but nonetheless, true.
I see an endless reaching for perfection that annoyed me so much in my mother coming out in me and my daughter is worse. Lord! As much as I wish I didn't have that element about me, it is there and I can't change it.
It stared at me in my face the other day in Sunday School. I made some gold crowns and one of the children was helping me with some of the jewels. I said, "Do it like this. I need it to be perfect." That's the worst thing to tell a child when you are teaching them. I couldn't take it back and knew I had that in me. Sometimes I annoy myself.
God put out a blanket policy for forgiveness when Jesus died. We simply as individuals have to sign up for it to take effect for us. The blood was only shed once, and it was shed for the whole world. Read Rom 5. I believe it is plain that Gods forgiveness was extended at calvary to the whole world. But we do not enter into the benefit of it until we bow the knee.
That is why I stated that if someone does me wrong, I am to forgive them whether they receive it or ask for it. In doing so, I free myself from hurting. Jesus forgave without being asked when he was on the cross. Stephen forgave when he was being stoned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
I did not miss your post. You are saying you were forgiven 2000 years ago. I am contending you were not forgiven until you asked for it from Him. If you were already forgiven then there would have been no need for you to ask in the first place. You are saying that we are required to forgive before we are asked. If that is the case then God has a higher standard for us than He has for Himself. Your sin stays on your record until it is wiped clean. That does not happen until you ask for forgiveness.
Yes you are, because I am saying something you are not. I am probably just not presenting it clearly enough.
I am looking form Gods eyes on this. Remember God calls those things which be not as though they were. Healing is already accomplished by Gods eye's. We can note Peter stating that "with his stripes you WERE healed". The healing was given by God at the time the stripes were applied, yet we as individually do not get that healing until we by faith accept it as ours. I see forgiveness the same. It is made available for all at the offering of Christs blood upon the mercy seat, meaning God has already done the work. Yet we still have lost with us, because for it to take effect in our lives personally, we must accept the work accomplished by faith.
The other issue is that those that cannot forgive are not free of the deed that was done against them. I have known people that spend their whole lives playing the victim game, and never was able to live, simply because they were unable to forgive what someone did to them, and move on. It never mattered if the offender asked a 1000 times. They became a victim of their own unforgiveness. It allowed bitterness to spring up, and they became critical of anything and everything.
Jesus was very plain when he said :
Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven. :
It does not say to "forgive if they ask you, and ye shall be forgiven". The commandment is to simply forgive.
God put out a blanket policy for forgiveness when Jesus died. We simply as individuals have to sign up for it to take effect for us. The blood was only shed once, and it was shed for the whole world. Read Rom 5. I believe it is plain that Gods forgiveness was extended at calvary to the whole world. But we do not enter into the benefit of it until we bow the knee.
That is why I stated that if someone does me wrong, I am to forgive them whether they receive it or ask for it. In doing so, I free myself from hurting. Jesus forgave without being asked when he was on the cross. Stephen forgave when he was being stoned.
I see the gift of salvation in the same light. Salvation is imparted to us freely, but it's not ours until we ask and seek for it.
I see forgiveness from God the same way. He gave it freely to us before we were even born, but until we ask and seek for it, it's not ours.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
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