Since the heart is only known by God, how can we be SURE?
In studying the following scriptures on unity and forgiveness, I have a question I'd like to throw out for discussion.
When we come to Christ and put off our old self, we become new and like Him. He has forgiven us and it's written below that we are to forgive others and forget their wrongdoings. I'm with it so far.
Then Ephesians 5:3 starts with BUT and lists several things that should not be among us.
If these things are among us and are a struggle with some, the scriptures say to not be partners with them.
When do we just forgive and forget? Just because someone is looked at as a Christian do we just accept that they are not struggling with any of those things listed and love them as Christ loves them, or not be partners with them?
Since their heart is only known by God, how can we be SURE?
Ephesians 4
Unity in the Body of Christ
2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called—
22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
Ephesians 5
1 Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.
15 Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. 21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
I think that passage is speaking of unrepentant folks, not just people who have done so in the past or struggle with it. When we repent, God not only forgives, He forgets. When we ask forgiveness again, God doesn't remember that we just asked forgiveness for the same thing yesterday, the day before, 1000 times last year, etc. It's as if we are asking for the first time.
Since we don't know the hearts of others, it's not for us to judge, but I think we know when someone is repentant and when they aren't. I believe it's the latter that Paul is addressing, and I agree with him.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
I think that passage is speaking of unrepentant folks, not just people who have done so in the past or struggle with it. When we repent, God not only forgives, He forgets. When we ask forgiveness again, God doesn't remember that we just asked forgiveness for the same thing yesterday, the day before, 1000 times last year, etc. It's as if we are asking for the first time.
Since we don't know the hearts of others, it's not for us to judge, but I think we know when someone is repentant and when they aren't. I believe it's the latter that Paul is addressing, and I agree with him.
Actually, Paul was 'teaching' the Ephesian church.......and it's still relevant to the Church today.
Matthew 7:15 - 23 (KJV) 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Jesus words speaks clearly don't they?
__________________
Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
Sometimes it can be a hard call. When someone has given you cause to mistrust them, it's hard to ever do that again.
We can be assured that every person will bear fruit of whatever they have embraced and it will ripen and show itself. So, we have something we can count on happening.
We've, more than likely, dealt with many issues involving people coming and going. Basically, we come to the place that we put that trust in the work of the Holy Ghost. He knows the heart and he won't allow anything to destroy His people or His church. All things will be revealed.
So, we can only do as the scriptures admonish us - "Be ye wise as serpents and gentle as doves." Heavy on the wise.
His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
We can be sure by the attitude and behavior of their life...the true benchmark of holiness! You cannot hide the heart too long...eventually it reveals itself and proves either genuine or counterfeit.
Sometimes it can be a hard call. When someone has given you cause to mistrust them, it's hard to ever do that again.
We can be assured that every person will bear fruit of whatever they have embraced and it will ripen and show itself. So, we have something we can count on happening.
We've, more than likely, dealt with many issues involving people coming and going. Basically, we come to the place that we put that trust in the work of the Holy Ghost. He knows the heart and he won't allow anything to destroy His people or His church. All things will be revealed.
So, we can only do as the scriptures admonish us - "Be ye wise as serpents and gentle as doves." Heavy on the wise.
Extra heavy on the gentle!!!!
__________________
Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
In studying the following scriptures on unity and forgiveness, I have a question I'd like to throw out for discussion.
When we come to Christ and put off our old self, we become new and like Him. He has forgiven us and it's written below that we are to forgive others and forget their wrongdoings. I'm with it so far.
Then Ephesians 5:3 starts with BUT and lists several things that should not be among us.
If these things are among us and are a struggle with some, the scriptures say to not be partners with them.
When do we just forgive and forget? Just because someone is looked at as a Christian do we just accept that they are not struggling with any of those things listed and love them as Christ loves them, or not be partners with them?
Since their heart is only known by God, how can we be SURE?
Ephesians 4
Unity in the Body of Christ
2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called—
22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
Ephesians 5
1 Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.
15 Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. 21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
WE can't. The only thing WE can do is look at fruits and warn
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Linear Mode
