All Trinitarians are Lost!!!!!!!!!!!

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I totally agree. Ananias commanded Saul to call on (invoke) the Name of the Lord in baptism. Why don't we teach that? Why do we hang someone's salvation on a "priest" saying the right "incantation" over them? Ridiculous.

It's a Romanist system. Folks like Epley believe that a person's salvation hinges on the words spoken by them as they're immersing someone, yet another attempt to place themselves between an individual and God. Pure Romanist teachings.

[navygoat1998]

I have seen Pastors when they Baptize say because of the confession of the Faith in Jesus Christ and in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy-ghost.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by seekerman

It's a Romanist system. Folks like Epley believe that a person's salvation hinges on the words spoken by them as they're immersing someone, yet another attempt to place themselves between an individual and God. Pure Romanist teachings.

Having this conversation in times past, I asked Bro. Epley if he had a problem with the person being baptized speaking their own words and he said that he did not have a problem with that at all - just for the record.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Can you believe Jesus is something other than God and be saved? Scripture for that? How about Genesis-Revelation? "In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God." Jesus is the Living Word---and He's God! "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." The whole thing is about Him---if you don't believe the Word you can't be saved. I don't get the confusion.

Can you believe He's just a teacher, prophet, good man, important historical figure and be saved? He is both Lord and Christ!

Well, I see that there was no scripture forthcoming that supports the idea that one must believe Jesus is God in order to be redeemed/saved. The claim that one must do that is a false claim, has no scriptural basis, and has nothing to do with redemption/salvation.

Here's a good salvation scripture which the majority of oneness Pentecostals reject, claiming that it's a scripture on how to keep being saved or some such bunk.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Notice, there is no requirement that one need to believe that Jesus is God in the scripture to be saved. One is required to believe in one's heart that God raised Him (Jesus) from the dead though....per scripture.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Sorry, but most Trinitarians believe in one God. Their way of explaining this one God's existence is ridiculous to say the least, but they do believe in one God nonetheless.

No need to apologize. I know what Trinitarian's say but they explain tritheism and conclude it's a mystery. The "mystery" is in the incarnation not the godhead.

Many of the Christologies lead to a Christ that destroys the efficacy of Calvary thus making another gospel.

A quick example:
They deny the "man" Christ because they say it is God the Son praying. This turns the "man" into nothing more than a lifeless carcass animated by the second person. This lifeless carcass is no better than the blood of bulls and goats.

For Calvary to be efficacious there had to be the sacrifice of a "man" - Rom. 5 and 1 Cor 15. A man of Adam's race.

If Jesus was "man" then as a man he prayed - they do not allow this making as I said the "man" a lifeless carcass.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Having this conversation in times past, I asked Bro. Epley if he had a problem with the person being baptized speaking their own words and he said that he did not have a problem with that at all - just for the record.

Scripture teaches that it's the person being baptized speaking the words, not some goober who calls himself a preacher or bishop or some such thing intoning proper words in some sort of modified Romanist ritual of baptismal regeneration.

Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Additionally, water isn't the redemptive element of the individual, the blood of the Lamb is. The blood of the Lamb is something that oneness Pentecostals seldom mention when speaking of salvation though. It's almost always the holy oneness trinity of tongues, water baptism with a man saying the proper words over the individual and a list of standards. Where is the blood, the cross, the sacrifice of the Lamb, the perfect High Priest in oneness pentecostal salvation theology. Alas, it all takes a back seat to tongues and baptism and standards most of the time.

[Farfel]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Well, I see that there was no scripture forthcoming that supports the idea that one must believe Jesus is God in order to be redeemed/saved. The claim that one must do that is a false claim, has no scriptural basis, and has nothing to do with redemption/salvation.

Here's a good salvation scripture which the majority of oneness Pentecostals reject, claiming that it's a scripture on how to keep being saved or some such bunk.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Notice, there is no requirement that one need to believe that Jesus is God in the scripture to be saved. One is required to believe in one's heart that God raised Him (Jesus) from the dead though....per scripture.

In my opinion, to accept the Lord Jesus is to accept that He is God. Trinitarians and Oneness both agree on this. Both factions use John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

I have seen Pastors when they Baptize say because of the confession of the Faith in Jesus Christ and in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy-ghost.

Who cares what they say? Nothing in scripture indicates one's salvation hinges on some guy speaking the right words at your baptism.

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Who cares what they say? Nothing in scripture indicates one's salvation hinges on some guy speaking the right words at your baptism.

I know that! I understand Baptism like Paul, who said it is to identify with Christ in His death, burial and Resurrection.

Romans 6:3–5

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Well, I see that there was no scripture forthcoming that supports the idea that one must believe Jesus is God in order to be redeemed/saved.

John 8

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he...


John 12:16 These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him.

Isaiah 9:6

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Isaiah 53

1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.