Republicans taxing churches

[Wilsonwas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

While this position is common in more libertarian circles, it isn't necessarily a "biblical" position. Regarding the payment of taxes, the Scriptures tell us:

Matthew 22:17-21 English Standard Version (ESV)
17 Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” 18 But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, “Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? 19 Show me the coin for the tax.” And they brought him a denarius. 20 And Jesus said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” 21 They said, “Caesar's.” Then he said to them, “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.”

Romans 13:7 English Standard Version (ESV)
Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

1 Peter 2:13-14 English Standard Version (ESV)
13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good.

Christians are called to be tax paying and law abiding citizens. In Romans 13, government is actually defined as being an institution ordained by God Himself. So, whomever is anti-government is anti-God.

Now, this doesn't mean that some areas should strictly be under God's authority. When government imposes its authority in these areas, we do well to peacefully refuse to comply. But taxation isn't one of those areas.

Rather than present a wall of text, this captures my response well: Render Unto Caesar: A Most Misunderstood New Testament ...
Lew Rockwell › 2010/03 › jeffrey-f-barr


Basically, the Pharasees were again trying to trap Jesus between the law, and the Romans. He escapes the trap by noting the image and inscription on a coin. Then advises that all coins that bear this image belong to Ceaser, and should be returned as he demands. This does not excuse taxations burden as nessesary to a Christian society, nor does it excuse rebellion by resisting the theif.

When I state all taxation is theft, it is also in the context thst fiat currencies issued by gooberment actually belong to it. The gain of my labor however does not bear the inscription of Ceaser (Re: George of other dead presidents) and does not, as also my soul, my body or my mind, belong to Ceaser.

[Wilsonwas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Being multifaceted again?

lol

I must say I agree with this question, as some threads ago Aquila noted himself as a libertarian....now he sounds like a big gooberment leftest.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Wilsonwas

I must say I agree with this question, as some threads ago Aquila noted himself as a libertarian....now he sounds like a big gooberment leftest.

My position is perhaps more complicated than most. In many ways, I agree with libertarians. In other ways, I don't.

The issue at had is that taxation isn't "theft" if Scripture admonishes that we pay taxes and tribute to God ordained authority (government).

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

My position is perhaps more complicated than most. In many ways, I agree with libertarians. In other ways, I don't.

The issue at had is that taxation isn't "theft" if Scripture admonishes that we pay taxes and tribute to God ordained authority (government).

Scripture also tells us to get tax money out of the mouth of a fish

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Wilsonwas

Rather than present a wall of text, this captures my response well: Render Unto Caesar: A Most Misunderstood New Testament ...
Lew Rockwell › 2010/03 › jeffrey-f-barr


Basically, the Pharasees were again trying to trap Jesus between the law, and the Romans. He escapes the trap by noting the image and inscription on a coin. Then advises that all coins that bear this image belong to Ceaser, and should be returned as he demands. This does not excuse taxations burden as nessesary to a Christian society, nor does it excuse rebellion by resisting the theif.

When I state all taxation is theft, it is also in the context thst fiat currencies issued by gooberment actually belong to it. The gain of my labor however does not bear the inscription of Ceaser (Re: George of other dead presidents) and does not, as also my soul, my body or my mind, belong to Ceaser.

Amen, because Jesus is teaching against image worship to Judeans. As well as the issue of Roman Imperial taxation of occupied territory. Jesus tells them that they are to worship God which is due Him and belongs to Him. Yet, give the Roman image and title back to the Romans.

[Wilsonwas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

My position is perhaps more complicated than most. In many ways, I agree with libertarians. In other ways, I don't.

The issue at had is that taxation isn't "theft" if Scripture admonishes that we pay taxes and tribute to God ordained authority (government).

"Render unto Ceaser the things that are Ceasers". This statement neither supports taxation, nor releases us from paying with "Ceaser's" money.

The gooberment insists that all gain, monetary or in kind is taxable- with monetary as Ceasers. Property tax is an example. Once a thing has not Ceasers mark, is it still his.

[Esaias]

Fascinating how most folks didn't pay income tax until around the 50s, and before 1913 there was no income tax. However did we become the greatest country on earth without income tax, SS tax, taxes on non-monetary "benefits", etc?

Especially considering that the Federal Reserve was set up in order to discharge all debt, public and private, which means " money" is created out of literally thin air... nobody actually has any "money", we just exchange Federal Reserve promissory notes. Which ought to make one realize the whole tax thing is a complete and utter scam, based entirely upon two abominations: a false weight and measure, and usury.

Roman money wasn't even that messed up.

[Wilsonwas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Fascinating how most folks didn't pay income tax until around the 50s, and before 1913 there was no income tax. However did we become the greatest country on earth without income tax, SS tax, taxes on non-monetary "benefits", etc?

Especially considering that the Federal Reserve was set up in order to discharge all debt, public and private, which means " money" is created out of literally thin air... nobody actually has any "money", we just exchange Federal Reserve promissory notes. Which ought to make one realize the whole tax thing is a complete and utter scam, based entirely upon two abominations: a false weight and measure, and usury.

Roman money wasn't even that messed up.

I think we have just found a pount on which, you, EB, and I fully agree. Nice!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Scripture also tells us to get tax money out of the mouth of a fish

No it doesn't.

Scripture depicts a specific occasion wherein tax money was found in the mouth of a fish. But it doesn't command you and I to go seeking tax money in the mouths of fish.

But Scripture is pretty clear about obeying the laws of the land and paying taxes.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Fascinating how most folks didn't pay income tax until around the 50s, and before 1913 there was no income tax. However did we become the greatest country on earth without income tax, SS tax, taxes on non-monetary "benefits", etc?

Especially considering that the Federal Reserve was set up in order to discharge all debt, public and private, which means " money" is created out of literally thin air... nobody actually has any "money", we just exchange Federal Reserve promissory notes. Which ought to make one realize the whole tax thing is a complete and utter scam, based entirely upon two abominations: a false weight and measure, and usury.

Roman money wasn't even that messed up.