Canadian Healthcare the real story

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Sooooo, now that you bring this up,.....

There was no way that she could have seen a specialist ? No way at all?

Nope. She had no insurance. She was divorced and just living paycheck to paycheck.

No way that she could have went in and somehow come up with the money? I find it hard to believe that there was absolutely no other alternative than the government to help her.

She called a few specialists to schedule an appointment. They took her information over the phone to get her scheduled and when she explained that she had no health insurance or money in hand, they explained that they could not schedule her. Everyone one of them did.

How about your family? Couldn't they have helped her pay?

My mother was raised by a single mom (worked as a bar tender and grocery store clerk for years). Mom had one brother and two sisters. All grew up on the East side of Dayton, Ohio. We asked family if they could help with her seeing a doctor, but everyone said they didn't have the extra cash. When mom died, she didn't even have life insurance. Me, my grandmother, and my uncle wiped out our savings to help pay for the funeral. We had a little over half the cost covered. The funeral home wrote off the rest of it.

How about sending her to Mexico, say to Monterrey, that has some of the best doctors out of that country, and it is way cheaper?

Mom couldn't even afford a car, let alone a trip out of the country to see a doctor.

See, when we get it in our mind that the government is our only hope then we cross out creative thinking.

She could have robbed a bank?

I recently had my son who had a medical emergency and I am a self payer. That means I don't have insurance except what I pay. His ambulance was 2500, his doctor was 1500, and the emergency bill was 13500. Total bill for 4 hours was 17,500.00.

But, I am a self payer so I started working out deals. Cutting deals with them is the way to work. They will negotiate, trust me.

I've seen them negotiate with business owners, people who have a significant amount of money to put down, and people who make a rather high income.

Mom was a divorcee, worked as a cashier for just over minimum wage, and had no savings. She had no car and lived in a one bedroom apartment. No one was willing to bargain with her. She had nothing to bargain with.

So far we are getting things worked out to less than .50 on the dollar.

I'm happy for you and I'm glad it is working out. But if you could see beyond yourself for a while, maybe you'll realize that you're blessed to have the privilege to negotiate and bargain. Many are not.

What kind of specialist did she need?

I don't remember the exact title for it. I believe it was some kind of heart and vascular specialist. What complicated matters is that when she wasn't feeling right and went to the ER, they didn't find anything. They attributed her discomfort to stress. One specialist's office seemed to be leaning towards working out something so that she could be seen, but since she had no results indicating an actual condition, they were concerned with all the testing they'd have to perform and the cost of the tests. They advised that the next time she felt discomfort in her chest, she should go to the ER and if they found something she should call them back and they might see what they could do.

Here's something that those in poverty face quite a bit. Mom went to an inner city hospital that sees a lot of uninsured people. People who have no insurance tend to be treated differently at times. While the ER stated that they didn't find anything, I'm not convinced that they ran every test necessary to find the problem. And if that is so, not running every test necessary on account of her being uninsured left her with no results for a specialist to work with. Which only complicated her effort to get into see a specialist.

It's almost like these healthcare providers are in an ivory tower and you're only a lowly peasant begging for what you need to simply live another day. If all you have is an old pair of shoes to offer up in trade for help, they often laugh and ask you to move along from the balcony of the tower. You go home to your shanty and stare at those old shoes realizing that you'll most likely die soon, and someone will walk in and throw those old shoes away. You stare at those shoes, they were your shot in the dark. They were a light of hope. They just weren't enough.

What tears me up is... my mother wasn't alone. During those years an estimated 45,000 Americans were dying every year from treatable conditions because they didn't have insurance or the cold hard cash to pay for care. Those billionaire CEO's of the insurance companies certainly made unbelievable amounts of money, I mean, they made stupid amounts of money. I've attached what the CEOs of leading insurance companies made in 2016 just to give you an example of the stupid kind of money those cats make... as thousands languish and die without the care they need. These are the same people who fill Washington with lobbyists while whining and crying that any national health insurance program would just be too expensive.

I've also attached an older picture of my mom.

[aegsm76]

A - I feel for you.
My wife started having heart issues about 4 months ago.
We do have insurance and she has had all of the "tests", however they cannot find a problem, so they are just saying that it is stress.
At least that is my opinion.
Now, I believe that the government usually is the problem, not the solution.
That is my main opposition to single payer.
I do realize that our current healthcare system is head for immense problems in the long term.
I also know that due to our healthcare system structure, the rest of the world has been living off of American innovation for many years.
If we go to single payer, the pace of that innovation will slow greatly.
That is one problem among many.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

A - I feel for you.
My wife started having heart issues about 4 months ago.
We do have insurance and she has had all of the "tests", however they cannot find a problem, so they are just saying that it is stress.
At least that is my opinion.
Now, I believe that the government usually is the problem, not the solution.
That is my main opposition to single payer.
I do realize that our current healthcare system is head for immense problems in the long term.
I also know that due to our healthcare system structure, the rest of the world has been living off of American innovation for many years.
If we go to single payer, the pace of that innovation will slow greatly.
That is one problem among many.

Here's an FAQ on the most reasonable Single Payer program I've researched. It's H.R. 676, The Expanded & Improved Medicare For All Act. Perhaps this can help answer some of your questions. Is the plan perfect? Nope. But it sure is better than what we have now. And if we discover something better, it would be a heck of a lot easier to get everyone aboard a better plan from Single Payer than it would this wasteland of gimmicks and patchwork plans.

Single Payer FAQ:

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq

[Aquila]

Here's another thing.... imagine businesses and companies no longer having to fit the bill for providing employee medical plans. It would untangle business with health insurance provision and allow businesses to focus on what they do best... MAKE MONEY.

Of course, many companies might like to continue offering smaller optional supplemental plans to sweeten the pot for qualified applicants. But that would be up to each business, company, or corporation.

If you want to loosen the shackles of businesses on the free market... end employer provided health insurance and go Single Payer.

I've yet to see a business owner who didn't actually find that idea appealing. Imagine starting a business or running a company wherein the days of worrying about providing employee insurance plans are over. Ah... fresh air. Feels like a good day to focus on... BUSINESS. Now, that's capitalism!

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by n david

None of what you posted refutes the articles point....That healthcare consumes the majority of the budget, and that most of your taxes go to pay for healthcare.

You were actually talking about Canadians depending on the USA for their medical needs. Which of course is total BS.
I showed you how good the Canadian system is. Taxes or no taxes, makes no difference. People without a job are not turned away for medical help/medication in Canada.
No need to argue anymore about it.

Beats me why the USA can't have a system like the Canadians.
So, next time you start talking about other countries make sure you get the right information.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

You were actually talking about Canadians depending on the USA for their medical needs. Which of course is total BS.
I showed you how good the Canadian system is. Taxes or no taxes, makes no difference. People without a job are not turned away for medical help/medication in Canada.
No need to argue anymore about it.

Beats me why the USA can't have a system like the Canadians.
So, next time you start talking about other countries make sure you get the right information.

And you're still avoiding the point, that the health care costs in Canada are a massive amount of the governmental budget. In fact, your anecdotal story just reinforces that.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Nope. She had no insurance. She was divorced and just living paycheck to paycheck.



She called a few specialists to schedule an appointment. They took her information over the phone to get her scheduled and when she explained that she had no health insurance or money in hand, they explained that they could not schedule her. Everyone one of them did.



My mother was raised by a single mom (worked as a bar tender and grocery store clerk for years). Mom had one brother and two sisters. All grew up on the East side of Dayton, Ohio. We asked family if they could help with her seeing a doctor, but everyone said they didn't have the extra cash. When mom died, she didn't even have life insurance. Me, my grandmother, and my uncle wiped out our savings to help pay for the funeral. We had a little over half the cost covered. The funeral home wrote off the rest of it.



Mom couldn't even afford a car, let alone a trip out of the country to see a doctor.



She could have robbed a bank?



I've seen them negotiate with business owners, people who have a significant amount of money to put down, and people who make a rather high income.

Mom was a divorcee, worked as a cashier for just over minimum wage, and had no savings. She had no car and lived in a one bedroom apartment. No one was willing to bargain with her. She had nothing to bargain with.



I'm happy for you and I'm glad it is working out. But if you could see beyond yourself for a while, maybe you'll realize that you're blessed to have the privilege to negotiate and bargain. Many are not.



I don't remember the exact title for it. I believe it was some kind of heart and vascular specialist. What complicated matters is that when she wasn't feeling right and went to the ER, they didn't find anything. They attributed her discomfort to stress. One specialist's office seemed to be leaning towards working out something so that she could be seen, but since she had no results indicating an actual condition, they were concerned with all the testing they'd have to perform and the cost of the tests. They advised that the next time she felt discomfort in her chest, she should go to the ER and if they found something she should call them back and they might see what they could do.

Here's something that those in poverty face quite a bit. Mom went to an inner city hospital that sees a lot of uninsured people. People who have no insurance tend to be treated differently at times. While the ER stated that they didn't find anything, I'm not convinced that they ran every test necessary to find the problem. And if that is so, not running every test necessary on account of her being uninsured left her with no results for a specialist to work with. Which only complicated her effort to get into see a specialist.

It's almost like these healthcare providers are in an ivory tower and you're only a lowly peasant begging for what you need to simply live another day. If all you have is an old pair of shoes to offer up in trade for help, they often laugh and ask you to move along from the balcony of the tower. You go home to your shanty and stare at those old shoes realizing that you'll most likely die soon, and someone will walk in and throw those old shoes away. You stare at those shoes, they were your shot in the dark. They were a light of hope. They just weren't enough.

What tears me up is... my mother wasn't alone. During those years an estimated 45,000 Americans were dying every year from treatable conditions because they didn't have insurance or the cold hard cash to pay for care. Those billionaire CEO's of the insurance companies certainly made unbelievable amounts of money, I mean, they made stupid amounts of money. I've attached what the CEOs of leading insurance companies made in 2016 just to give you an example of the stupid kind of money those cats make... as thousands languish and die without the care they need. These are the same people who fill Washington with lobbyists while whining and crying that any national health insurance program would just be too expensive.

I've also attached an older picture of my mom.

It's ironic that you dismiss Monterrey's point as being anecdotal, all while relying on your own anecdotal story as proof that we need single-payer. Aegsm already said that even with insurance and tests run, the doctors still couldn't pinpoint a problem with his wife. Government run health care does not mean people will stop dying, it just means that government gets to decide who lives and who dies.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

You were actually talking about Canadians depending on the USA for their medical needs. Which of course is total BS.
I showed you how good the Canadian system is. Taxes or no taxes, makes no difference. People without a job are not turned away for medical help/medication in Canada.
No need to argue anymore about it.

Beats me why the USA can't have a system like the Canadians.
So, next time you start talking about other countries make sure you get the right information.

Speaking of getting information right, I wasn't saying anything about Canadian healthcare, except to state your claims did nothing to prove the article wrong.

Taxes do make a difference, especially here in the US.

And please refrain from cursing, this is supposed to be a Christian forum.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jito463

And you're still avoiding the point, that the health care costs in Canada are a massive amount of the governmental budget. In fact, your anecdotal story just reinforces that.

Aside from defense, what could possibly be more important than the public health of a people?

Believe it or not, health care can be a national security issue. Imagine the outbreak of an epidemic in a nation with millions of uninsured.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jito463

It's ironic that you dismiss Monterrey's point as being anecdotal, all while relying on your own anecdotal story as proof that we need single-payer. Aegsm already said that even with insurance and tests run, the doctors still couldn't pinpoint a problem with his wife. Government run health care does not mean people will stop dying, it just means that government gets to decide who lives and who dies.

Government standards would determine priority cases. In the United States a billionaire can get a new heart at 60 years old faster than 15 year old with inadequate health insurance. Yes, health care is rationed in the United States. It isn't rationed based on severity, age, or likelihood of recovery. It's rationed based on who has insurance or cold hard cash. You can live, if the price is right. Otherwise, hope you find a charity before you die.

I don't think you get it. The doctors in the ER couldn't find my mom's problem. That's why they referred her to see a specialist. The specialist only recommended that she go to the ER again if the symptoms returned because of all the tests they'd need to run and her inability to pay. They hoped the second visit to the ER would possibly identify the problem. If she had insurance, or money to wheel and deal, the specialist's office would scheduled her for the necessary tests. And given the nature of her heart attack, they would have most likely found the problem and she'd be alive today. She was only 54.