A lack of pastoral discernment

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Neither are the expectations that pastors place on tjeir members scriptural.

ya, but i think that one grows from this one

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

The expectations placed on a pastor are simply not supported in scripture. This might be the first place to start with this.

because "no buyers means no sellers." Sellers rise to fill the need of buyers. Generally speaking, not calling pastors sellers per se.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

The expectations placed on a pastor are simply not supported in scripture. This might be the first place to start with this.

Neither are the expectations placed on members by pastors scriptural. And frankly, If members do place unbiblical expectations on their pastors it's because the pastors want them to. These guys set them up to be the final authority, "the man of Gawd".

[Godsdrummer]

Just my thoughts from study of this from several points of view. The position of a Pastor as we have today is not scriptural period. Pastors were gifting's given to the church as per Ephesians 4 This is the only place pastor is found in all the NT. And they were only part of a four fold gifting to the church to equip the saints to do the work of ministry.

Deacons and Elders were not pastors, and they were chosen by others based upon their life that was proven beforehand that they were qualified to be in said positions.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Just my thoughts from study of this from several points of view. The position of a Pastor as we have today is not scriptural period. Pastors were gifting's given to the church as per Ephesians 4 This is the only place pastor is found in all the NT. And they were only part of a four fold gifting to the church to equip the saints to do the work of ministry.

Deacons and Elders were not pastors, and they were chosen by others based upon their life that was proven beforehand that they were qualified to be in said positions.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Neither are the expectations placed on members by pastors scriptural. And frankly, If members do place unbiblical expectations on their pastors it's because the pastors want them to. These guys set them up to be the final authority, "the man of Gawd".

Yes. Agreed. Neither is scriptural.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ya, but i think that one grows from this one

because "no buyers means no sellers." Sellers rise to fill the need of buyers. Generally speaking, not calling pastors sellers per se.

They both stem from the Roman Catholic church system. Not from the way the early church operated.

[good samaritan]

The catholic priests made themselves mediators unto God for the rest of the church. We are now all priests unto God. Jesus was the mediator for all. Preachers should preach and teach the gospel of Jesus and the biblical way unto righteousness. No need micro managing people's lives. We no longer have need of a physical priesthood.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

The catholic priests made themselves mediators unto God for the rest of the church. We are now all priests unto God. Jesus was the mediator for all. Preachers should preach and teach the gospel of Jesus and the biblical way unto righteousness. No need micro managing people's lives. We no longer have need of a physical priesthood.

Very true, Bro. GS.

[votivesoul]

If we "preach not ourselves, but Jesus Christ", then there wouldn't be a way to preach about the "selves" of others, either.

Personally, I want to know more about Jesus. Tell me more about Him. Explain to me who is He and what He did. Help me to love and appreciate Him more.

Can a preacher ever run out of things to say about Jesus that he has to take the time to preach about something or someone else?

I surely hope not.

[Cracker Barrel]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

If we "preach not ourselves, but Jesus Christ", then there wouldn't be a way to preach about the "selves" of others, either.

Personally, I want to know more about Jesus. Tell me more about Him. Explain to me who is He and what He did. Help me to love and appreciate Him more.

Can a preacher ever run out of things to say about Jesus that he has to take the time to preach about something or someone else?

I surely hope not.

John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.



Luke 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.



Like 24:43-45
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scripture.



The whole book is about HIM.