In the former thread we discussed John maxwell quotes and I participated. Therefore I am wondering, did you hear SG quote John Maxwell as JA alluded to? I listened to it online and I didn't hear a John Maxwell quote. He quotes Barna, but not in any context concerning the "idiot" quote.
My perspective has definitely changed due to hearing the SG sermon. It would appear that unfortunately he (and NOT John Maxwell) was in fact called an idiot for what he preached. Which seems crazy to me!
If JA apologized, as has been reported, that's good. A lesson is learned here for me, when passion for a subject is ignited, please be careful what you say in the pulpit!
He did not quote Maxwell. I typed the quote word for word. There was a slight pause of transition before the quote and then after the quote he transitions into another thought.
SG may have still been quoting paraphrased content, and maybe JA was familiar enough to know where he got his ideas. Either way...JA was out of line for calling SG an idiot and I'm glad he apologized for his remark.
BOTT is a place for training ministers/pastors, and advice for pastors on church growth, revival and taking personal responsibility is certainly appropriate. SG's comments were on point from that perspective, but I can certainly see how they could sting.
IMO, people who make good leaders can also tend to be narcissists (the negative side of take-charge types), so being reminded to take personal responsibility and be introspective is a very good thing.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
JA is a guy who I have seen over the years both preach the most amazing relevatory message.... and get himself into the nuttiest controversies.
(is relevatory a word?)
gives me whiplash to even think about it.
I was fortunate as a young man to get to spend some time with him. His heart for people is a big as anyone's ive ever known. He is a brilliant guy who loves God and can just flat preach circles around the very best.... but he also can say some things that just have no explination.
I love the guy. warts and all.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
JA is a guy who I have seen over the years both preach the most amazing relevatory message.... and get himself into the nuttiest controversies.
(is relevatory a word?)
gives me whiplash to even think about it.
I was fortunate as a young man to get to spend some time with him. His heart for people is a big as anyone's ive ever known. He is a brilliant guy who loves God and can just flat preach circles around the very best.... but he also can say some things that just have no explination.
I love the guy. warts and all.
Hey Ferd it is funny but when I would drive by his church I would think that it would be fun to sneak onto the back row and listen to him preach, but the last time I drove by I only thought about the BOTT thingy.
__________________
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
JA is a guy who I have seen over the years both preach the most amazing relevatory message.... and get himself into the nuttiest controversies.
(is relevatory a word?)
gives me whiplash to even think about it.
I was fortunate as a young man to get to spend some time with him. His heart for people is a big as anyone's ive ever known. He is a brilliant guy who loves God and can just flat preach circles around the very best.... but he also can say some things that just have no explination.
I love the guy. warts and all.
His sermon, "Refuge from Despair" was the best I've heard from him.
He's coming to Phoenix this fall for a conference. Lord-willing I'll be there to hear him preach.
JA is a guy who I have seen over the years both preach the most amazing relevatory message.... and get himself into the nuttiest controversies.
(is relevatory a word?)
gives me whiplash to even think about it.
I was fortunate as a young man to get to spend some time with him. His heart for people is a big as anyone's ive ever known. He is a brilliant guy who loves God and can just flat preach circles around the very best.... but he also can say some things that just have no explination.
I love the guy. warts and all.
I bet my first experience with JA is even older than yours! I remember in the 70's meeting him before he was a pastor. He was a traveling Magician / Evangelist. His personality fit the magician gig perfectly. Also being much younger made the brutish crude personna more real. The last 20 years or so you would like to think a person would grow and mature and become better spoken. My belief is he turned something that was "cute" and "amusing" when he was young into a lifelong schtick.
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
I bet my first experience with JA is even older than yours! I remember in the 70's meeting him before he was a pastor. He was a traveling Magician / Evangelist. His personality fit the magician gig perfectly. Also being much younger made the brutish crude personna more real. The last 20 years or so you would like to think a person would grow and mature and become better spoken. My belief is he turned something that was "cute" and "amusing" when he was young into a lifelong schtick.
well you are OLDER! I mean you were kissing Renda before I was old enough... oh wait...nevermind...
I do remember his magician deal back in the 70s!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
well you are OLDER! I mean you were kissing Renda before I was old enough... oh wait...nevermind...
I do remember his magician deal back in the 70s!
LOL!!! Uh oh. You have now opened up the pandora's box.
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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