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  #11  
Old 04-02-2014, 10:13 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: The Conservative Case for Single-Payer Health

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Originally Posted by Disciple4life View Post
I totally get where you are coming from. I don't want to take away roads or libraries of Medicare. But my point is that it will not stop with health insurance. Next it will be food, housing and college education. Just wait it is coming.

You don't want people to pay for people to eat healthy nutritious food with your tax dollars?

You don't think it is a right for every person to have a safe place to live?

You don't think it is the governments place to give everyone a free college education?

The media and society will demonize anyone who refuses to go along with the new plan.

Why don't we look oversees. They have tried some of this stuff and it didn't work.

We can do it better!?! Kind of like paying to police the world with blood and treasure while everyone else reaps the benefits.

One last point and I will stop ranting.

You don't work you don't get health coverage.
Each issue you present is an individual battle. Here, we're talking about health care and insuring Americans. The way I see it... we're paying the inflated prices of our premiums because of the uninsured (most of which work in low end jobs) who pay nearly nothing on their bills... yet receive services. It would be best to bring everyone under a single umbrella and cause everyone to pay "something" into the system to stabilize costs.

The only other way to stabilize this and prevent the costs from rising every year is to deny services to those who are uninsured or don't have the cash to pay.
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  #12  
Old 04-02-2014, 03:30 PM
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Disciple4life Disciple4life is offline
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Re: The Conservative Case for Single-Payer Health

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Each issue you present is an individual battle. Here, we're talking about health care and insuring Americans. The way I see it... we're paying the inflated prices of our premiums because of the uninsured (most of which work in low end jobs) who pay nearly nothing on their bills... yet receive services. It would be best to bring everyone under a single umbrella and cause everyone to pay "something" into the system to stabilize costs.

The only other way to stabilize this and prevent the costs from rising every year is to deny services to those who are uninsured or don't have the cash to pay.
OK I understand Auila. You want to deal with one issue and stay on the subject at hand. Fine.

The problem is your logic. I am not trying to offend you or be mean.

Logically if you make an argument then you have to stay consistent with said logic.

A lot of people do not pay their cell phone bills. This increases everyone's bills. So we should all pay a little so that everybody can have coverage. Because it is a safety issue that people can get in contact with each other and the authorities. So the government has the right to force me to pay for something I may or may not ever use.

It does not have to be cell service. It can be anything just fill in the blank ____ and add any of the socialist causes that will save the world.
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  #13  
Old 04-02-2014, 03:33 PM
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Re: The Conservative Case for Single-Payer Health

World English Bible

For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: "If anyone will not work, neither let him eat."
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  #14  
Old 04-02-2014, 03:36 PM
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Re: The Conservative Case for Single-Payer Health

World English Bible
"You shall not steal.
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  #15  
Old 04-02-2014, 03:40 PM
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Re: The Conservative Case for Single-Payer Health

I need everyone from AFF to send me $1.50 to help me pay my cable bill this month. Yeah and when you can't pay one of your bills just let me know and the check will be in the mail. Ha Ha Ha!!!!
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  #16  
Old 04-04-2014, 03:38 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: The Conservative Case for Single-Payer Health

Right now, we’re trying to insure 45 million Americans who don’t have health insurance. How did health insurance get so expensive?

First, there are administrative costs. Every office has a different administrative system. A universal system would cut down on these seeing that you’d be enrolled in a single system. Ever notice that if you go to a different office you have to fill out the paperwork you’ve filled out dozens of times over and over and over again? This would reduce costs.

Second, the uninsured drive up costs. You see, the uninsured don’t make regular doctor visits because they can’t afford it. As a result, they typically only seek care when they suffer from a serious illness or injury. When this happens, they rush to the ER. Of course, they are billed for their evaluations, treatments, and stay. Do they pay the bill? No. They don’t have the money. (Remember, the vast majority of bankruptcies in the US are related to medical bills). When they don’t pay the medical service provider (hospital, clinic, or doctor’s office) has to write off what they can, and pass the rest of the loss down to the consumer. As a result, the cost of health care goes up. As the cost of health care goes up, insurance premiums rise to meet the increasing costs. And when insurance premiums rise… more people determine that they can’t afford insurance. As a result… more people are uninsured and turning to the ER and the cycle starts all over again year after year, after year, after year.

Imagine if a car lot was run this way. Imagine that you could show up at a car lot and say you have an emergency need for an automobile. Yet you have no financing or cash in hand. Then, the car lot shows you around the lot and gives you a car and they simply tell you that they will bill you. Now imagine that the vast majority of people are slow pays or no pays regarding that bill. What will happen to the price of cars in this car lot? They will skyrocket. Why? The dealer will have to pass the loss down to the consumer to stay in business.

Notice absolutely NO business is truly run like health care. Therefore, we cannot say that we have free market health care. Why? Because the free market wouldn’t provide services for those who are uninsured or who can’t pay cold hard cash. Don’t believe me? Walk onto a car lot and tell them that you have no money or financing. LOL Go try and order a pizza without having cash or credit card. Lol

If we truly had a free market health care system… it would turn away the uninsured or those who can’t pay cash. Since no one is truly turned down (accept for long term treatments and procedures) we need a way to ensure that EVERYONE at least pays SOMETHING into the system. Why should YOU and ME pay for the uninsured with ever rising health insurance premiums????

Since care is provided to our society on a nearly universal basis… then society at large has to find a way to universally pay for the service. You enjoy well lit and paved roads right? All of society benefits from them. We all know the value of having ready police, fire, and EMS services. And we all help pay for these things via our taxes. Now, imagine that they expanded Medicare and Medicaid. The average family of four can pay nearly $400 or more a month for a really decent health insurance plan that provides extensive coverage. Even if everyone’s taxes increased by $100 dollars a month it would be cheaper than the cost of the current monthly premium.

Thirdly, why do we shoulder businesses with this burden? A business’s mission is to sell a produce or provide a service to make money. The amount of time and resources that go to insure that employees have a health insurance plan is an unnecessary burden on business. Since individuals need and seek care… why not pass this responsibility to each individual and unshackle business in our country? We have businesses and corporations moving to so many locations wherein businesses are not shackled with this responsibility. C’mon… let’s get real.

Fourth, I have many friends and family in Canada. They are aghast with how we characterize their health care system. They haven’t had the troubles with the system that they hear us talk about. Sure, no system is perfect and I don’t doubt one can find individual situations wherein the system isn’t working for a given case or wherein there is a wait time in sparsely populated regions where there aren’t a sufficient number of specialists in a given area of medicine. But I’ve never heard anyone that I know in Canada complain. In fact, they laugh and talk about the “right wing liars” here in the United States who make it sound like their system just allows people to wither and die all the time. When the truth be told… between 45 and 50 THOUSAND Americans DIE each year from treatable conditions simply because they don’t’ have sufficient health insurance coverage. Let’s humor the idea. Let’s say everyone has to wait a bit longer for various treatments or procedures that are non-life threatening. So, what’s worse? Waiting a couple weeks for a knee replacement (with excellent pain medication prescribed by the way) or dying because you can’t afford specific treatments for a serious condition? Give me a couple weeks on darn good meds any day. Lol

Fifthly, we aren’t rising to the occasion because of fear. We look at some of the problems other countries have had and we fail to realize… we don’t have to do it exactly like them. In fact, if we determined to go single payer… we would have entire panels established to study the various problems such a system might face and has faced in other countries. Seeing that we’re far behind on the efforts of universal health care… we have an advantage to learn from their mistakes. Thereby aiding us in making any universal health care system in the United States superior to any other in the world.

All it takes is the tenacity to believe and be bold. Make it happen. Take into consideration that modern Israel has universal health care. Their rabbis see it as a moral imperative given the Torah’s stipulations on social justice and provision for the least in the nation. You’ll notice as time goes on more and more physicians and corporations are going to be examining and pushing for single payer. It will ensure greater personal responsibility for our own health. It will ensure that everyone pays something into the system that we all benefit from. It will unshackle businesses and corporations. It will ensure that providers are paid for services, thereby cutting out the loss that’s passed down each year to the consumer. It will reduce administrative costs. And be cheaper than what most families pay in premiums each month for a decent plan. As more people are insured, more will establish a family doctor and regular physicals, thereby catching serious illness earlier and as a result reduce the costs for treatment.

We can do it. All we have to do is believe and make it happen. They said we’d never put a man on the moon. We did. Now, we have to get this right. We’re falling behind and as it stands the United States has one of the most costly systems on the planet for individual citizens. We can do better. We must. I look at my children and realized that we’re the first generation that will not be leaving our children in a better society than the one we grew up in.

While you might not agree… at least really look into it. Here’s a link to get you started if you want to really see what the vision is:


http://www.pnhp.org/
Attached Images
File Type: jpg universal-health-care-cartoon.jpg (21.4 KB, 3 views)

Last edited by Aquila; 04-04-2014 at 03:46 PM.
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  #17  
Old 04-04-2014, 03:38 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: The Conservative Case for Single-Payer Health

The truth is... our premiums are so expensive because we're paying for people who pay nothing.
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  #18  
Old 04-04-2014, 03:56 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: The Conservative Case for Single-Payer Health

Interesting article by a doctor:

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2014/march/...ts-not-profits
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  #19  
Old 04-04-2014, 03:57 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: The Conservative Case for Single-Payer Health

Single Payer FAQ:

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq
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  #20  
Old 04-04-2014, 04:01 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: The Conservative Case for Single-Payer Health

Interesting blurb:
Won’t this result in rationing like in Canada?

The U.S. already rations care. Rationing in U.S. health care is based on income: if you can afford care, you get it; if you can’t, you don’t. A recent study found that 45,000 Americans die every year because they don’t have health insurance. Many more skip treatments that their insurance company refuses to cover. That’s rationing. Other countries do not ration in this way.

If there is this much rationing, why don’t we hear about it? And if other countries ration less, why do we hear about them? The answer is that their systems are publicly accountable, and ours is not. Problems with their health care systems are aired in public; ours are not. For example, in Canada, when waits for care emerged in the 1990s, Parliament hotly debated the causes and solutions. Most provinces have also established formal reporting systems on waiting lists, with wait times for each hospital posted on the Internet. This public attention has led to recent falls in waits there.

In U.S. health care, no one is ultimately accountable for how the system works. No one takes full responsibility. Rationing in our system is carried out covertly through financial pressure, forcing millions of individuals to forgo care or to be shunted away by caregivers from services they can’t pay for.

The rationing that takes place in U.S. health care is unnecessary. A number of studies (notably a General Accounting Office report in 1991 and a Congressional Budget Office report in 1993) show that there is more than enough money in our health care system to serve everyone if it were spent wisely. Administrative costs are at 31% of U.S. health spending, far higher than in other countries’ systems. These inflated costs are due to our failure to have a publicly financed, universal health care system. We spend about twice as much per person as Canada or most European nations, and still deny health care to many in need. A national health program could save enough on administration to assure access to care for all Americans, without rationing.
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