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03-23-2011, 01:04 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lexington KY
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Re: If Salvation is a absolute free gift..
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotforSale
There is such a huge problem with this; at what point are we "Removed?"
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Probably when you have no more desire to return.
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To be able to unite in difference carries more weight than all the opinions the universe can hold
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03-23-2011, 01:04 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: If Salvation is a absolute free gift..
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotforSale
There is such a huge problem with this; at what point are we "Removed?"
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We can discuss this further if you agree we CAN lose salvation. Do you agree we can?
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...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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03-23-2011, 01:05 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,730
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Re: If Salvation is a absolute free gift..
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Originally Posted by mfblume
You misunderstand grace and works. If I lose my salvation, it was not because I did not pay what I owed God. It is because I removed myself from grace. Period.
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sorry but you have no debt to lose it mike. with that meaning it means NOTHING FOR ANY REASON the gift can be taken away. I cannot be removed from when it is given to me mike. That is the whole point. There is no legal ground for it to be taken or I can remove myself. I HAVE IT!
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03-23-2011, 01:06 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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Re: If Salvation is a absolute free gift..
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotforSale
There is such a huge problem with this; at what point are we "Removed?"
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exactly... he is playing both sides of the fence and you cannot.
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03-23-2011, 01:06 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: If Salvation is a absolute free gift..
Quote:
Originally Posted by onefaith2
Romans 8:12
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Paul is talking about being a debtor to live after the Spirit in this context. Thats what I mean.
WE do have a debt to let the Spirit work through us the works of the Lord. If we walk not after the Spirit, we will die.
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I agree. But that is not a debt for righteousness given to us. The whole point of Romans 4 deals with righteousness and indebtedness. The reason we are going to heaven is because the GIFT of righteousness is ours. It is Christ's personal righteousness. Indebtedness to walk after the Spirit is not talking about owing God for righteousness.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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03-23-2011, 01:06 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: If Salvation is a absolute free gift..
Quote:
Originally Posted by LUKE2447
exactly... he is playing both sides of the fence and you cannot.
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Oh, please, I was not playing both sides of the fence. Phew!
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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03-23-2011, 01:07 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: If Salvation is a absolute free gift..
Quote:
Originally Posted by LUKE2447
sorry but you have no debt to lose it mike. with that meaning it means NOTHING FOR ANY REASON the gift can be taken away. I cannot be removed from when it is given to me mike. That is the whole point. There is no legal ground for it to be taken or I can remove myself. I HAVE IT!
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Wrong. I can throw it away.
Explain to me how Romans 4:4-5 is not saying what I am saying.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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03-23-2011, 01:07 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,730
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Re: If Salvation is a absolute free gift..
If God considers me have received the gift. At what point does he say I have "given" it back? sounds like stipulations Mike.
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03-23-2011, 01:08 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: If Salvation is a absolute free gift..
Quote:
Originally Posted by LUKE2447
If God considers me have received the gift. At what point does he say I have "given" it back? sounds like stipulations Mike.
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It is not giving it back. It is throwing it away.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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03-23-2011, 01:08 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,730
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Re: If Salvation is a absolute free gift..
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
I agree. But that is not a debt for righteousness given to us. The whole point of Romans 4 deals with righteousness and indebtedness. The reason we are going to heaven is because the GIFT of righteousness is ours. It is Christ's personal righteousness. Indebtedness to walk after the Spirit is not talking about owing God for righteousness. |
his personal rigeousness is not forensic but practical John 4:5-15. THAT is what has been given us to do. FAITHFULNESS of Christ as also of Abraham.
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