The Role of a New Testament Prophet

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

And you think this is prophecy, God back and read Sams post on what a prophet does, he never reads those things that you have been hiding, he exhorts, comforts, and edifies.

You are mistaking the gift of wisdom or word of knowledge with prophecy. This is what gets me we don't know what the gifts are as we don't have them working in the church in a way that we understand them. Yet we act like we have the whole truth. And claim to have the gifts working in our churches.

trust me there was words of prophecy envolved i just didnt tell them here. cause they were for me and my wife, but you can actually see some of it already unfolding in my other "what would you do post."

but yet i have seen prophecies to comfort and edify, i have also seen them as a rebuke and a warning

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Sam

There is a difference between a prophet and the gift of prophecy.

A prophet is one of the gifts God has given the church, see Ephesians 4:11 and 1 Corinthians 12:28. Only two or three prophets are to speak, and what they say is to be judged by the hearers (ref 1 Corinthians 14:29-31) but all can prophesy. A person who prophesies speaks for:
edification (to build up)
exhortation (to stir up)
comfort (to lift up or to cheer up)

Interesting, Sam. I also pondered the distinction of the prophet in Ephesians and the gift of prophecy and exhortation of "I wish you all would prophecy" in 1 Corinthians 14, in an attempt to find that distinction.

What I can make out today is that a prophet is often a voice to the Church. The prophet is the moral objector, the one who may confront our direction, ask us to reflect upon our heart, etc... IMO most UPCI Evangelists (and other denoms) don't truly operate as an evangelist, but rather in a prophetic sense. An evangelist should take up a post in the City to bring masses to Jesus, baptize them and disciple them. The one-day scream in tongues, collect a check and leave is not very evangelistic.

But the prophet... is it an office or a role? It sounds like there are multiple people in the church with this gift. Does anyone ever get the sense of frustration of being so far from the early church model?

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by acerrak

God has given her the ability to read your mail and bring it to the front. i.e. tell you things you really know about yourself or have been hiding

Is the end result that you feel closer to Jesus?

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

And you think this is prophecy, God back and read Sams post on what a prophet does, he never reads those things that you have been hiding, he exhorts, comforts, and edifies.

You are mistaking the gift of wisdom or word of knowledge with prophecy. This is what gets me we don't know what the gifts are as we don't have them working in the church in a way that we understand them. Yet we act like we have the whole truth. And claim to have the gifts working in our churches.

Interesting.

When Samuel confronted David, was that prophecy, the role of a prophet or something different because it was pre-Pentecost?

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Is the end result that you feel closer to Jesus?

yea the relationship had changed over night. and yes been praying more

[stephenroehm]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

And you think this is prophecy, God back and read Sams post on what a prophet does, he never reads those things that you have been hiding, he exhorts, comforts, and edifies.

You are mistaking the gift of wisdom or word of knowledge with prophecy. This is what gets me we don't know what the gifts are as we don't have them working in the church in a way that we understand them. Yet we act like we have the whole truth. And claim to have the gifts working in our churches.

I beg to differ.

John 4:16-19 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. (17) The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: (18) For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. (19) The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

Prophets indeed do foretell (tell what is coming) and tell forth (tell the hidden past, secrets of the heart).

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by stephenroehm

I beg to differ.

John 4:16-19 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. (17) The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: (18) For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. (19) The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

Prophets indeed do foretell (tell what is coming) and tell forth (tell the hidden past, secrets of the heart).

Notice that Jesus foretells these things so that she will know He is the I AM. That's the entire point. She runs and tells the whole city. He also doesn't embarrass her or shame her. He lets her know he's the real deal and them gives her hope, telling her she will "drink and never thirst again."

[stephenroehm]

Notice that Jesus foretells these things so that she will know He is the I AM. That's the entire point.

I agree that the point of any prophecy is to glorify God. The LORD used prophets in the OT and NT to glorify Him, to warn, to exhort, to stir up, to tell forth, to for tell, etc., and all for His glory.

He also doesn't embarrass her or shame her.

Are you implying with this statement that prophets should not inspire shame in a person? Both rebuking sinners in the church openly (embarrassment) and inspiring conviction in the hearer inwardly (Godly sorrow worketh repentance, shame) are examples that were given in the OT and NT. There is no scriptural evidence to infer that He publicly embarrassed her by running and telling her sin, but it was obvious that she was taken aback and ashamed by Him calling out the sin that she had tried to hide in her heart. It's that shame that leads a person to repentance.

[Sam]

It is my understanding that a prophet is one who speaks for another.

According to the Strongs Concordance the word in the Old Testament is nabiy
5029 nbiy' neb-ee' (Aramaic) corresponding to 5030; a prophet:--prophet.
5030 nabiy' naw-bee' from 5012; a prophet or (generally) inspired man:--prophecy, that prophesy, prophet. 5031 nbiy'ah neb-ee-yaw' feminine of 5030; a prophetess or (generally) inspired woman; by implication, a poetess; by association a prophet's wife:--prophetess.

I have also heard or read somewhere that it can also mean "to bubble up" describing how a person speaks as the Holy Spirit within him/her bubbles up

In the New Testament the word is prophetes
4394. propheteia prof-ay-ti'-ah from 4396 ("prophecy"); prediction (scriptural or other):--prophecy, prophesying.
4395. propheteuo prof-ate-yoo'-o from 4396; to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office:--prophesy.
4396. prophetes prof-ay'-tace from a compound of 4253 and 5346; a foreteller ("prophet"); by analogy, an inspired speaker; by extension, a poet:--prophet.
4397. prophetikos prof-ay-tik-os' from 4396; pertaining to a foreteller ("prophetic"):--of prophecy, of the prophets. 4398. prophetis prof-ay'-tis feminine of 4396; a female foreteller or an inspired woman:--prophetess. 5578. pseudoprophetes psyoo-dop-rof-ay'-tace from 5571 and 4396; a spurious prophet, i.e. pretended foreteller or religious impostor:--false prophet.

I have heard or read somewhere that the word prophetes can mean "one who speaks for another." In my Apostolic Bible Polyglott (which is a Greek/English interlinear Bible) with Strongs numbers the definition for prophetes is "declarer." In that Bible, Exodus 7:1 reads: "And the Lord said to Moses, saying, Behold I have made you as a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother will be your prophet." The Greek word translated prophet there is prophetes (no. 4396). As Aaron was the spokesperson for Moses, a prophet (prophetes) is a spokesperson for God --or a prophet is one who speaks for God.

Another Old Testament word for prophet was "seer" (reference 1 Samuel 9:6-9 where Samuel is called "a man of God" and also a "seer" with the explanation that the person usually called a prophet at the time this book was written used to be called a seer."

The word seer in the Old Testament is Strong's number 7300 or 2374
7200 ra'ah raw-aw' a primitive root; to see, literally or figuratively (in numerous applications, direct and implied, transitive, intransitive and causative):--advise self, appear, approve, behold, X certainly, consider, discern, (make to) enjoy, have experience, gaze, take heed, X indeed, X joyfully, lo, look (on, one another, one on another, one upon another, out, up, upon), mark, meet, X be near, perceive, present, provide, regard, (have) respect, (fore-, cause to, let) see(-r, -m, one another), shew (self), X sight of others, (e-)spy, stare, X surely, X think, view, visions.
or
2374 chozeh kho-zeh' active participle of 2372; a beholder in vision; also a compact (as looked upon with approval):--agreement, prophet, see that, seer, (star-)gazer.

It is my understanding that the term "seer" meant that a prophet had spiritual discernment or could see things from more than just a human viewpoint or could actually see visions.

Note: These quotes from Strongs are taken from
http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html
I used the second option of entering the Strong's number and choosing either Hebrew or Greek in Strong's Lexicon.

I do not read Hebrew or Greek so I am at the mercy of the authors of the Strong's Concordance.

Years ago there were three main concordances that I heard of: Cruden's, Strong's, and Young's. Someone said that Cruden's was for the crude, Young's was for the young, and Strong's was for the Strong. That was in the day before the internet when we had to look at paper copies of Bibles, commentaries, concordances, etc.

[Sam]

from Smith's Bible Dictionary (another older work) but this is from the online version at
http://www.biblestudytools.com/dicti...y/prophet.html

Prophet. [E]

The ordinary Hebrew word for prophet is nabi , derived from a verb signifying "to bubble forth" like a fountain; hence the word means one who announces or pours forth the declarations of God. The English word comes from the Greek prophetes (profetes ), which signifies in classical Greek one who speaks for another , especially one who speaks for a god , and so interprets his will to man; hence its essential meaning is "an interpreter." The use of the word in its modern sense as "one who predicts" is post-classical. The larger sense of interpretation has not, however, been lost. In fact the English word ways been used in a closer sense. The different meanings or shades of meanings in which the abstract noun is employed in Scripture have been drawn out by Locke as follows: "Prophecy comprehends three things: prediction; singing by the dictate of the Spirit; and understanding and explaining the mysterious, hidden sense of Scripture by an immediate illumination and motion of the Spirit." Order and office . --The sacerdotal order was originally the instrument by which the members of the Jewish theocracy were taught and governed in things spiritual. Teaching by act and teaching by word were alike their task. But during the time of the judges, the priesthood sank into a state of degeneracy, and the people were no longer affected by the acted lessons of the ceremonial service. They required less enigmatic warnings and exhortations, under these circumstances a new moral power was evoked the Prophetic Order. Samuel himself Levite of the family of Kohath, ( 1 Chronicles 6:28 ) and almost certainly a priest, was the instrument used at once for effecting a reform in the sacerdotal order ( 1 Chronicles 9:22 ) and for giving to the prophets a position of importance which they had never before held. Nevertheless it is not to be supposed that Samuel created the prophetic order as a new thing before unknown. The germs both of the prophetic and of the regal order are found in the law as given to the Israelites by Moses, ( 13:1 ; 18:20 ; 17:18 ) but they were not yet developed, because there was not yet the demand for them. Samuel took measures to make his work of restoration permanent as well as effective for the moment. For this purpose he instituted companies or colleges of prophets. One we find in his lifetime at Ramah, ( 1 Samuel 19:19 1 Samuel 19:20 ) others afterward at Bethel, ( 2 Kings 2:3 ) Jericho, ( 2 Kings 2:2 2 Kings 2:5 ) Gilgal; ( 2 Kings 4:38 ) and elsewhere. ( 2 Kings 6:1 ) Their constitution and object similar to those of theological colleges. Into them were gathered promising students, and here they were trained for the office which they were afterward destined to fulfill. So successful were these institutions that from the time of Samuel to the closing of the canon of the Old Testament there seems never to have been wanting due supply of men to keep up the line of official prophets. Their chief subject of study was, no doubt, the law and its interpretation; oral, as distinct from symbolical, teaching being thenceforward tacitly transferred from the priestly to the prophetic order. Subsidiary subjects of instruction were music and sacred poetry, both of which had been connected with prophecy from the time of Moses ( Exodus 15:20 ) and the judges. ( Judges 4:4 ; 5:1 ) But to belong to the prophetic order and to possess the prophetic gift are not convertible terms. Generally, the inspired prophet came from the college of prophets, and belonged to prophetic order; but this was not always the case. Thus Amos though called to the prophetic office did not belong to the prophetic order. ( Amos 7:14 ) The sixteen prophets whose books are in the canon have that place of honor because they were endowed with the prophetic gift us well as ordinarily (so far as we know) belonging to the prophetic order. Characteristics . --What then are the characteristics of the sixteen prophets thus called and commissioned and intrusted with the messages of God to his people?

1. They were the national poets of Judea.
2. They were annalists and historians. A great portion of Isaiah, of Jeremiah, of Daniel of Jonah, of Haggai, is direct or in direct history.
3. They were preachers of patriotism, --their patriotism being founded on the religious motive.
4. They were preachers of morals and of spiritual religion. The system of morals put forward by the prophets, if not higher or sterner or purer than that of the law, is more plainly declared, and with greater, because now more needed, vehemence of diction.
5. They were extraordinary but yet authorized exponents of the law.
6. They held a pastoral or quasi-pastoral office.
7. They were a political power in the state.
8. But the prophets were something more than national poets and annalists, preachers of patriotism moral teachers, exponents of the law, pastors and politicians. Their most essential characteristic is that they were instruments of revealing Gods will to man, as in other ways, so specially by predicting future events, and in particular foretelling the incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ and the redemption effected by him. We have a series of prophecies which are so applicable to the person and earthly life of Jesus Christ as to be thereby shown to have been designed to apply to him. And if they were designed to apply to him, prophetical prediction is proved. Objections have, been urged. We notice only one, vis., vagueness. It has been said that the prophecies are too darkly and vaguely worded to be proved predictive by the events which they are alleged to foretell. But to this might be answered,
9. That God never forces men to believe, but that there is such a union of definiteness and vagueness in the prophecies as to enable those who are willing to discover the truth, while the willfully blind are not forcibly constrained to see it.
10. That, had the prophecies been couched in the form of direct declarations, their fulfillment would have thereby been rendered impossible or at least capable of frustration.
11. That the effect of prophecy would have been far less beneficial to believers, as being less adapted to keep them in a state of constant expectation.
12. That the Messiah of revelation could not be so clearly portrayed in his varied character as God and man, as prophet, priest and king, if he had been the mere teacher."
13. That the state of the prophets, at the time of receiving the divine revelation, was such as necessarily to make their predictions fragmentary figurative, and abstracted from the relations of time.
14. That some portions of the prophecies were intended to be of double application, and some portions to be understood only on their fulfillment, Comp. ( John 14:29 ; Ezekiel 36:33 )

[E] indicates this entry was also found in Easton's Bible Dictionary
[J] indicates this entry was also found in Jack Van Impe's Prophecy Dictionary
Bibliography Information

Smith, William, Dr. "Entry for 'Prophet'". "Smith's Bible Dictionary". . 1901.