Let's talk about Baptism. - Page 2

mrnbcox · #11 05-21-2010, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotforSale

So, is everyone who has not obeyed Acts 2:38 going to Hell?

Yeah.

Gods_Chosen_85 · #12 05-21-2010, 02:42 PM

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

To be born of the water one must be baptized in water for the remission of sins. Without baptism there is no remission! One must also be born of the spirit and that comes with the infilling of the Holy Ghost with the sign and evidence of speaking in tongues as the spirit gives the utterance!

Mark 16: 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 19:2-6
2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Paul talking to Johns disciple established that it is not enough to just believe by asking them "have you recieve the holy ghost since you believed" He then questioned thier mode of baptism and and had them baptized in Jesus name, when they were they begin to speak in other tongues as the spirit gave the utterance. They became born of the water and the spirit!

The reason for Jesus name baptism as stated in Acts 2:38 and not Matthew 28:19 is a two fold reason.. Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." We are saved by the name! We are not saved by titles of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Matthew 28:19 even commands that we baptize in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost! It teaches us that there is a singular name for the F,S, and HG. That name is found in Acts 2:38 when they are commanded to be baptized in JESUS name for the remissions of Sin... Jesus the Name of God, The name given to men by which we must be saved!

Even the disciples understood this because not one disciple or apostle ever baptized in the title of F,S, HG. If you read they all baptized in Jesus name.

So is baptism essential to salvation and does it matter how we are baptized. YES, the bible makes it quite clear! We are to be immersed in water in Jesus name for the remission of sins. Acts 2:38 is the fullfillment of John 3:5 when Jesus commands that we be born of the water and the spirit because when you follow Acts 2:38 you get born of the water and the spirit infills you so you become born of the spirit!

Hopes this helps
God Bless

mrnbcox · #13 05-21-2010, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

Its easier to ask a question than give a answer, so I will ask you a question.

One of my IBC room mates was converted during the first Iraq war by one of our chaplains. They were in the middle of the deep desert with very strict water rationing, in fact fellow marines donated their water rations to help this event out. He was baptized with a helmet filled with water in the name of Jesus by a UPCI chaplain.

If he had caught a bullet the next day would have my friend been given full baptisimal regeneration or was he just getting wet in the middle of the desert?

Answer that and I will fully indulge you in this conversation till we get to page 100+.

Well to be honest, i'm unsure. I would hope yes!
But the only reason I am bothered is by the fact that "Baptisim" means "To make fully Wet" that is full immersion.

The Biblical mode was immersion, which is one of the reason's its typed with "burying".
You don't bury the dead by pouring a bucket of dirt on their head.

But given the circumstances, they tried their best to obey. If he made it to a place of water, I would reccomend getting baptized by immersion.

On one hand, if this man is sincere & spirit filled, I would think the Lord would let him survive until able to be baptized regular. If the man does die the next day, I would assume the helmet worked.

This is the best answer I can give you.

mrnbcox · #14 05-21-2010, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gods_Chosen_85

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

To be born of the water one must be baptized in water for the remission of sins. Without baptism there is no remission! One must also be born of the spirit and that comes with the infilling of the Holy Ghost with the sign and evidence of speaking in tongues as the spirit gives the utterance!

Mark 16: 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 19:2-6
2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Paul talking to Johns disciple established that it is not enough to just believe by asking them "have you recieve the holy ghost since you believed" He then questioned thier mode of baptism and and had them baptized in Jesus name, when they were they begin to speak in other tongues as the spirit gave the utterance. They became born of the water and the spirit!

The reason for Jesus name baptism as stated in Acts 2:38 and not Matthew 28:19 is a two fold reason.. Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." We are saved by the name! We are not saved by titles of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Matthew 28:19 even commands that we baptize in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost! It teaches us that there is a singular name for the F,S, and HG. That name is found in Acts 2:38 when they are commanded to be baptized in JESUS name for the remissions of Sin... Jesus the Name of God, The name given to men by which we must be saved!

Even the disciples understood this because not one disciple or apostle ever baptized in the title of F,S, HG. If you read they all baptized in Jesus name.

So is baptism essential to salvation and does it matter how we are baptized. YES, the bible makes it quite clear! We are to be immersed in water in Jesus name for the remission of sins. Acts 2:38 is the fullfillment of John 3:5 when Jesus commands that we be born of the water and the spirit because when you follow Acts 2:38 you get born of the water and the spirit infills you so you become born of the spirit!

Hopes this helps
God Bless

and AMEN

mrnbcox · #15 05-21-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I agree. A yes or no answer is always predicated with a bunch of "What If's".

This is the exact threshold that causes many to question Religion, and, keeps those who are dogmatic about Faith and a particular belief at arms distance from those who know what they're talking about.

It's easy to corner the ignorant with a definitive answer, but the educated bring contrast into the picture, causing the Religious World to squirm by revealing greater facts through measurable arguments regarding the Bible, Culture, History, and Science.

Getting a solid answer concerning who is saved or lost is, well, basically not known. We simply do our best with what we know, but to be quite frank, none of us do know because none of us have been there. I have noticed, Apostolics years ago were much more precise in telling people, “UNLESS you do this or that, you won’t make it”. Today, we are seeing a dramatic shift away from such dogma, even by those who consider themselves Conservative.

Baptism is required by many, and not required by many others, and they both will argue the point as long as we are on this Planet building Religion. In the end, I think we are all in for a big surprise.

Just like you said, you could play the "What if" game in anything we discuss.

The word doesn't play or talk in "What If's".
If we believe the truth of what it says about Water baptism for one, its the same for all! He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

I'm not responsible for "What If's"
i'm only responsible to obey what I know the word commands, and to teach that same word to everyone without modifying it.

Straight & narrow is the gate

seekerman · #16 05-21-2010, 03:21 PM

Maybe this point has been brought up before but I haven't seen it if it has.

What does "baptism in Jesus name" mean anyway? Is that teaching that one's salvation hinges on the utterance and performance of another man? WHOSE confession is essential here? The person being baptized or the one doing the baptizing?

Teaching that a preacher, or a priest, must perform some sort of ritual on your behalf or you're not a child of God and not forgiven, is placing that preacher, or priest, and their performance directly between the individual and God. It's teaching that another man's performance must be added to Jesus' finished work in order to 'apply' Jesus to an individual.

This simply isn't true. I challenge anyone to find a single scripture teaching that one's salvation hinges on the baptismal ritual performance of another man. It's not there.

SeekingOne · #17 05-21-2010, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

2) Yes. I beleive immersion to be what the Bible demonstrates in most if not all instances of water baptism. Speaking the Name of Jesus during the baptism is VITAL for me-- as for anyone that I may have the privilege of baptizing one day.

I have been instructed that orthodoxy is the proper doctrinal statements from the bible, and orthoproxy is the doctrine of practices in the Bible. Where is "Speaking the Name of Jesus during the baptism is VITAL" ever documented in orthoproxy? The first century church? The Bible? It is not.

Not picking on you, just stating that nobody knows what was spoken during baptism, it is just something some people made up as best I can tell. The Bible doesn't even record John saying anything over the baptism of Jesus. Words are not important, the faith of the person being baptized seems to be important.

allstate1 · #18 05-21-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnbcox

Just like you said, you could play the "What if" game in anything we discuss.

The word doesn't play or talk in "What If's".
If we believe the truth of what it says about Water baptism for one, its the same for all! He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

I'm not responsible for "What If's"
i'm only responsible to obey what I know the word commands, and to teach that same word to everyone without modifying it.

Straight & narrow is the gate

O gee!!! Another straight& narrow reference!!!

SeekingOne · #19 05-21-2010, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnbcox

Unless a man obeys acts 2:38 completely. He can not be saved.

It matters how your baptized, and it's essential to be Baptized in Jesus Name!

Proof text on what being baptized in Jesus Name means? Like, if you are being baptized because you are placing your faith in Jesus, you are getting baptized in Jesus name, not John's baptism?

pelathais · #20 05-21-2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltraCon

Are people going to hell if they do not get baptized in the Name of Jesus?

Does it matter how your baptized?

Is baptism essential to salvation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnbcox

Unless a man obeys acts 2:38 completely. He can not be saved.

It matters how your baptized, and it's essential to be Baptized in Jesus Name!

Both of you gentlemen make the same mistake in language here. Instead of using the proper contraction " you're " you have mistakenly used the possessive pronoun " your ."

In the world of fast and sloppy posting this is hardly a matter for correction or complaint. We all just hammer out something on the keyboard and trust that our Internet friends will read past the minor grammatical and spelling errors. It's no big deal.

But I see your argument concerning just how and when "the name of the Lord" is pronounced or used in a baptismal ceremony to be akin to my pointing out your grammar problems.

I have asked many denominational pastors, Bible college instructions, theology professors and others about this issue over the years. I have yet to meet any Christian teacher or leader who ever suggested that baptism NOT be done "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ."

There are many different rites associated with baptism in many churches. Some of them involve such a long invocation that the officiant must read it out of a book. I have yet to ever see anyone who performed a baptism or who trained clergy to perform baptisms who ever omitted the name of Jesus Christ from the prayers, statements, liturgy, homilies or even their ad hoc extemporaneous exclamations.

Your complaint here appears to be as silly and pedantic as my pointing out your bad grammar.