Checking In

Lol, you say that now, (but thanks) Just wait till I have a run-in with somebody. Gotta run!

[Whole Hearted]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

Let me start by saying that I don't agree with the BC thing. My son will start college this fall to become a history professor, he wants his PHD. My daughter on the other hand wants to go to TBC.

I would love to know where this meeting is. I have just about given up on UPC youth meetings. There is on going on here now and I was told that last year they had strobe light and smoke and that kind of thing along with the wild music.. Well my kids are not there now and won't be unless things changes.


I would like to know there there is a meeting that preaches holiness and such. If nothing else pm me.

Bump for PP

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Just a Shepherd

In all fairness, it wasn't Bible college that hurt you, it was improper planning. I know I face the same thing as a church planter. The current church planting model that is being advocated, is flawed.

As a BC graduate and church planter I agree so much with this statement. But we are making copies of bad copy and who I am to challenge these sacred cows.

Next to the Bible people need to read Wolfgang Simson's book Houses that Change the World. You will never look at church planting the same.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Miss B,

At BC, I was student body secretary, vice president of the ministerial alliance, lead male vocalist, chorale, school trio and all that junk. I was a paid youth pastor for one of the largest churches in the area.

But a secular degree would have helped me more.

Sign up at your nearest Seminary that accepts you BC degree and get you Masters in Counseling, if will give you the skills you need to work with difficult people (a must these days) and put more money and professional skills in your pocket.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Ok, let me offer two scenarios, apropos to young ministers going to Bible College vs. secualar college, and this whole concept of "getting rich".

SCENARIO A:
John Doe feels a call to the ministry. He goes to an unaccredited Bible school for 4 years, gets a degree in Theology, and decides that he wants to plant a church. He gets to Metropolis with his young wife and possibly young child in tow, and sets about to find a job. Since he has no degree, he will most probably have to settle for a lower paying job, most likely in manufacturing or service industry work. He may make 8-10 dollars per hour, and very possibly will have to work shift work to start. He barely makes ends meet, the support he gets from Home Missions doesn't do much to help him rent a building, he has very little time to evangelize his community due to his varied work schedule. He gets discouraged after a while, and gives up on his vision of building a church in said city.

SCENARIO B:

John Doe feels a call to the ministry and knows that he will be planting a church. He goes to secular college and receives a degree in accounting/engineering/business administration, _____________ (fill in the blank). He arrives in Metropolis, is offered a position with a good company making 56k per year, working Monday thru Friday with great benefits. He now has time to spend his evenings teaching Bible Studies, he can not only support his family, but can contribute his own money to purchase, renovate and insure a building. His church begins to grow, because he has an opportunity to invest his personal time into his ministry and in time the congregation grows to the point that he can leave his secular job and become a full-time pastor. Two years down the road, John Doe experiences some financial difficulty, due to members moving away, some may become disgruntled, etc.........but, his experience and education allow him to re-enter the secular work force on a part-time basis until things stablilize.

Now, I realize that this is not the case with every church planter, but it's happened more often than not in my experience.

And, as my good friend Newman would say, I rest my case!

Very good breakdown, we need to revamp the whole church planting model.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

Yes, I'm here for the next two weeks... trying to absorb some culture while I am here. One interesting comment is that this place is a lot more christian-oriented than the US. The entire country pretty much shut down yesterday for Good Friday while people made a pilgramage somewhere... literally thousands of people walking down the streets going somewhere Thursday night.

Don't let holy week fool you!!!

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Howdy All,

I am checking in from youth convention where the predominent theme has been "holiness". You would not EVEN believe some of the junk that has come over the pulpit here.

Last night the speaker told the teens they need to go to bible college. He stated that parents should push them to this, and that if parents choose secular college over bc they are wrong. He also stated that kids and parents should be proud if the highest level of education they receive is a GED.

I was a little bit more than upset.

Oh, we've also had a preacher call Anna Nicole a whore from the pulpit.

I'm so thankful for the in depth teaching they have been receiving.

Then PP come out from amongst them and be ye Separate.

As for secular college.

That learning experience shows you a side of our reality.

If you are strong you will come out the other side.

Good for having seen and heard what the world thinks.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by CC1

Pastor Poster,

I have to think you are just lying about this. I mean I am constantly told that the UPC is not about that kind of preaching anymore!!!

Why are you spreading the stereotype that no longer exists?

CC1,

As i have stated many times...so many things have changed with UPCI and then some things have stayed the same.

Why, even on this forum; How many times have we blasted higher education, and told others that all the wisdom they need they can find in the word. Which is absolutely right, but if you can't read the word with any level of comprehension...then the word does you no good!

My sister and I were talking about the good old days...a sign that we are fastly approaching the "over the hill" mark... But we were taken out of school for Bible Quizzing, youth conferences, general conferences...and when I decided to go to Bible College I was told to "just stay home and marry one of our home boys"...to which I replied, "That is not why I am going to college." I think I have proven that in my life.

What are we teaching our children? You need to be preachers and you don't have to go to college to be one. We tell our girls to just marry preachers and you don't have to go to college to be one.

What isn't told is that even preachers have to eat. They have to work, and many times have to support the church instead of vica versa.

Besides the fact...if I was 'in charge' I would have immediately sat the young preacher down and told the young people the truth of the matter. Course what do I know...I am just a woman.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Felicity]

What are we teaching our children? You need to be preachers and you don't have to go to college to be one. We tell our girls to just marry preachers and you don't have to go to college to be one.

Perhaps this happens in some places but I NEVER heard this all the time I was growing up. We have never ever told our children and young people any such thing, including our own kids.

Maybe it's a southern thing?

[rgcraig]

Well, life can throw a curve at you sometimes that you aren't prepared for, but it sure would help to prepare some.

Right out of BC my husband and I assisted in a church for $50 a week. I had to get a good job to support us and did with God's help. Through the years, I was the one with the stable job and insurance for the family and in my opinion, that's just not the way God intended it to be.

I'm thankful for the job that I have without a college degree, but a turn in my life that I wasn't planning on has left me single and to move forward am told I will have to have a degree. I probably make good enough to support myself, but I don't want to work until I'm 80 either.

A college degree now is like a high school diploma was in our days.