Anger + Sadness = RAGE

[Hoovie]

Attorney Craig Sonner said the public is only hearing part of the story, and when all the facts come out, it will be clear that Zimmerman acted in self defense. A grand jury is scheduled to begin hearing the case April 10.

"George Zimmerman suffered a broken nose, and had an injury to the back of his head, he was attacked by Trayvon Martin on that evening," Sonner said. "This was a case of self defense."

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=15999256

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I'm going to want a little more information on Trayvon and what he was doing.

There has been a lot of analysis about the character of George Zimmerman in the media, and surprisingly little about Trayvon Martin.

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-lineh...-a-drug-dealer

It really doesn't matter what Trayvon was "doing." Unless he had actually DONE something or was trespassing or actually DOING something illegal, Zimmerman should have stopped following him when the 911 operator asked him to. I can understand following someone who is suspicious from a safe distance, but unless that person DOES something suspicious (as opposed to only "looking" suspicious) there is nothing to report. There is certainly nothing requiring action.

However, Zimmerman was probably justified in responding to an attack--once it occurred. IMO, though, *stalking* someone around the neighborhood is at least akin to provocation. The sad part of this story is that it might have ended in an assault charge at worst if the gun wasn't in Zimmerman's pocket.

Originally Posted by tstew

I'll try to state my position one more time before I just accept defeat in this matter .

Forget the race of the people involved for one second. If any one American decides to follow any other American in our free country who is guilty of nothing discernible, I guess that is his prerogative (I don't like it, but oh well). If said person calls 9-1-1, says "These (expletives), they always get away" and "(Expletive) he's running away from me", he has crossed well over the line.
If the person is told by the law enforcement agency he contacted to not give chase (at this point chase for what?) and he disregards that instruction and kills the person who ran away, he should not be walking away from jail that night a free man. Period.

This would be true to me if the man was green and the boy was purple. Where race has been interjected is in the discussion of A. would the boy had been chased in the first place if he wasn't black and B. if the police would have been more hesitant to outright release the shooter if all facts remained the same, but the boy was white.

I appreciate your insight and POV, tstew. The part of this story that really gets on my nerves is the insistence by the media that Zimmerman is white. Their bullheaded attitude about this fact blatantly illustrates their agenda of making white people look bad. If it makes sense, that feels like racism to me, and I feel we are collectively victims when the media indulges this kind of bias.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

It really doesn't matter what Trayvon was "doing." Unless he had actually DONE something or was trespassing or actually DOING something illegal, Zimmerman should have stopped following him when the 911 operator asked him to. I can understand following someone who is suspicious from a safe distance, but unless that person DOES something suspicious (as opposed to only "looking" suspicious) there is nothing to report. There is certainly nothing requiring action.

However, Zimmerman was probably justified in responding to an attack--once it occurred. IMO, though, *stalking* someone around the neighborhood is at least akin to provocation. The sad part of this story is that it might have ended in an assault charge at worst if the gun wasn't in Zimmerman's pocket.



I appreciate your insight and POV, tstew. The part of this story that really gets on my nerves is the insistence by the media that Zimmerman is white. Their bullheaded attitude about this fact blatantly illustrates their agenda of making white people look bad. If it makes sense, that feels like racism to me, and I feel we are collectively victims when the media indulges this kind of bias.

"White Hispanic" is a specific category than many Hispanics associate themselves with, although I thinkit is akin to the "White Wheat" designation of Wonder Wheat bread.

[Truthseeker]

IF shooter story true then no law was broken. There is on one other witness and he only saw portion of altercation which supports shooter story, but he only saw part of it.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Another thing that bothers me is WHY this minor's past record is NOT kept private?

He is still a minor.


Truthseeker, the law that shields zimmy if improperly interpreted would allow you to start a fight with someone and then as they defend themselves, you can kill him.

The whole situation is morally wrong and if he doesn't repent, God will get him-- even if our imperfect system allows this biscuit eater to walk.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

It really doesn't matter what Trayvon was "doing." Unless he had actually DONE something or was trespassing or actually DOING something illegal, Zimmerman should have stopped following him when the 911 operator asked him to. I can understand following someone who is suspicious from a safe distance, but unless that person DOES something suspicious (as opposed to only "looking" suspicious) there is nothing to report. There is certainly nothing requiring action.

However, Zimmerman was probably justified in responding to an attack--once it occurred. IMO, though, *stalking* someone around the neighborhood is at least akin to provocation. The sad part of this story is that it might have ended in an assault charge at worst if the gun wasn't in Zimmerman's pocket.

You don't know if Zimmerman continued following him. In another account he is reported as saying "Okay" AFTER the Dispatcher said, "You don't have to do that."

So, yes, it does "matter" and will be important in a court of law as to what Trayvon was "doing" at that point.

And in the midst of all of our putting forth facts and suppositions, there is no one, I don't believe, on this Board who isn't sad that Trayvon's life spiraled downward and ended in death.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by tstew

I'm saying that in the 911 call that I heard, he was told very clearly to not follow or approach and to meet the police. It sounded like he was in his vehicle when that order was given (unless I misunderstood). IMO disobeying that order precipitated whatever happened. I will not make assumptions about what did or didn't happen in the actual confrontation. None of us know either way for a certainty.

Did you listen to the complete 911 call recording? After the police told him not to follow Zimmerman says, "OK". And according to the one witness he was headed back to his vehicle when he was accosted by Martin.

The sad thing is that the media and the Sharptons jump in before the facts can be presented in a lawful manner. Why? Because that is how Al and Jesse make themselves relevant and rich, by ALWAYS playing the race card!!! Otherwise, why don't they jump in when it is black on black murder, or black on white???

Of course, there are cases of abuse, and hate crimes, but that doesn't make this one that, necessarily. Zimmerman must be thoroughly investigated, and justice must be done, but the media circus is just that. If we allow anarchy to rule the day, no one will ever get justice, just chaos.

As bad as you may think the justice system is in this country, can you think of a country in the world that is "less" racist than this country, sorry, but it does not exist. But you would never know it from the screams of the left!!

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Another thing that bothers me is WHY this minor's past record is NOT kept private?

He is still a minor.


Truthseeker, the law that shields zimmy if improperly interpreted would allow you to start a fight with someone and then as they defend themselves, you can kill him.

The whole situation is morally wrong and if he doesn't repent, God will get him-- even if our imperfect system allows this biscuit eater to walk.

I did say "IF". Not proof zimmy started an altercation that I know.

"God will get him" sounds like you would enjoy that??

[Truthseeker]

One thing when something emotional as religion/race/family stuff is not based off facts or truth, usually ends on what a person feels is right.

I was talking to a person yesterday at work about this, she responded "what if it was your child" that seems to be a theme with alot but that has no bearing none whatsever what happened or if Martin done wrong or not. YOUR BABY can do wrong.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

It really doesn't matter what Taryn was "doing." Unless he had actually DONE something or was trespassing or actually DOING something illegal, Zimmerman should have stopped following him when the 911 operator asked him to. I can understand following someone who is suspicious from a safe distance, but unless that person DOES something suspicious (as opposed to only "looking" suspicious) there is nothing to report. There is certainly nothing requiring action.

However, Zimmerman was probably justified in responding to an attack--once it occurred. IMO, though, *stalking* someone around the neighborhood is at least akin to provocation. The sad part of this story is that it might have ended in an assault charge at worst if the gun wasn't in Zimmerman's pocket.

I appreciate your insight and PROV, tset. The part of this story that really gets on my nerves is the insistence by the media that Zimmerman is white. Their bullheaded attitude about this fact blatantly illustrates their agenda of making white people look bad. If it makes sense, that feels like racism to me, and I feel we are collectively victims when the media indulges this kind of bias.

Maybe, we will never know, but it could have ended with Zimmerman dead. Martin was not just some baby faced kid, he was a 6'2' football player, and certainly capable of murdering Zimmerman. It is a very sad thing that has happened, but the ONLY way to handle it at this point is for the grand jury to review the case. And it will be referred to the grand jury, no matter, if it is merited by the actual facts or not. Sharpton, Jackson and the media circus have assured that it does.

We are a nation of laws, flawed, but the best in the world, so what would we like to change the system to??? Since it is obvious that it cannot be perfect until He who is perfect comes???

There is so much emotion spent on these type of things that our system is being systematic undermined. The "Occupy Movement" is a product of the lack of trust in the system of justice, and as so this country could go the way of the other nations, anarchy in the streets!!! ie: Wisconsin: elected a governor to save the state from financial ruin, when he attempted to carry out that mandate, the unions from outside the state turn the electors against the governor and have created all kinds of chaos. Multiple that times 50 states and you have a preview of kind of future this type of responses create.