Chris Reed

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

The Greek for "desire" in 1 Corinthians 14:1 is ζηλοῦτε or zeloute, from the Greek word zelos, that is to say, our word "zealous". In 1 Corinthians 14:12, we see the word zealous, from ζηλωταί, or zelotai, from zelos as well, but note a difference:

In 1 Corinthians 14:1, zeloute is a verb. In 1 Corinthians 14:12, zelotai is a noun.

Also in 1 Corinthians 14:1, prior to spiritual, or pneumatika (an adjective not a noun), we have the definite article τὰ or ta indicating the English word "the".

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/14-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_c...ians/14-12.htm

So, Paul wants the Corinthians to be zealous of or for the spiritual ______.

What should go in the blank? The word "gifts"? I don't think so. He had already established in 1 Corinthians 12:1 that he is writing about spiritual brethren, as I showed before.

So, in 1 Corinthians 14:1, Paul is writing something like this:

Be zealous of/for the spiritual [ones], referring back to the spiritual (remember in the text that pneumatika is an adjective, just like spiritual is in this sentence) brethren gifted by the Holy Spirit, understanding his use of zealous to be jealous of (in a good sense), as Thayer has it:

"in a good sense, to imitate emulously".

https://biblehub.com/greek/2206.htm

So, Paul is encouraging the congregation of the Corinthians to pay close attention to the charismatically gifted members of their church and to imitate them, particularly, I would say, in their level of devotion and sincerity to Christ, and so, become spiritual as well (as opposed to being carnal, the main problem in Corinth, as we know) and so, by jealously imitating these spiritual brethren, they might grow and mature and become spiritual as well, and so, be likewise endowed by the power of the Spirit with charismata.

In this way, the purpose of 1 Corinthians 1:5-7 could be achieved and the Corinthians really would not come behind anyone else in the charismata of the Spirit.

Now, as it pertains to 1 Corinthians 14:12, remember that zelotai is not a verb, but a noun.

The verse begins with Οὕτως or Houtos and, as an adverb, means "thus so, in this manner".

https://biblehub.com/greek/3779.htm

In what manner does Paul mean or refer? He is building his case from the verses previously written, particularly the idea that the church should be edified through prophecy, as opposed to a single member personally edified through tongues, and that speaking loudly in tongues makes someone sound like a "barbarian" to anyone who can't understand the language.

He wants them to become zealous people (nouns, that is) who are warmly affectionate toward and desiring to imitate, the spiritual brethren in the church, so that, by so doing (from houtos) they too could edify the whole church and not just themselves.

This passage is a call to maturity, to move on from carnal simplicity to spiritual complexity, that the whole church would emulate their leaders who have been endowed by the Spirit with charismata so that the church and the world at large around them can be and become even more blessed and fruitful, to the point that all the members might one day prophesy in turn when an unbeliever is in attendance and so have the secrets of his or her heart revealed by the Lord and so, fall upon his or her face and confess that God is truly in the saints of Corinth.

What this teaches us then, is that, as we already know, Corinth was a carnal mess, full of heresy, factions, and other forms of unrighteousness. But not everyone was that way. The household of Chloe, who reported the problems to Paul, for instance. Stephanus, as well. There were some leaders in Corinth whose ships were sailing well, but a lot of work needed to be done for the rest of the Body.

Paul's teaching then in 1 Corinthians 12-14 shows us that many of the saints in Corinth were not spiritual and had not been endowed with any charismata, and likely never would be unless and until they got their heads on straight and learned to submit themselves to the commandments of the Lord. One way of doing that was to be zealous for their spiritual brethren, the example setters, those apostles, and prophets, and teachers, and etc., who God was using regularly in the gifts of the Spirit.

So, the gifts are in a sense, for everyone in the Body, but they aren't randomly or promiscuously handed out to just anyone just because somebody received the Holy Spirit and was baptized. There is a method to them. A growing up that needs to be accomplished. They aren't just given, they are entrusted. God is a God of decency and order and expects His gifts to be administered and operated accordingly. So, those who use them well and righteously are to be admired and appreciated and learned from, even emulated, in their walk with God, so that what they have been given might be given again, when the time is right and the next up and coming person is ready.

Regarding the last bit about when the time is right and the next up and coming person is ready, I believe Timothy is the perfect case.

At some point in his life, after his conversion, some elders laid their hands on Timothy and he was commissioned to the ministry and endowed with a gift of the Spirit at the same time. Paul may have been one of those elders, because he, too, refers to a time when Timothy received a gift of the Spirit after Paul laid hands on him. Either it was the same moment or separate events. Whichever way it was, it shows perfectly what I have maintained. That not everyone is ready for the gifts of the Spirit, but at a crucial time, with the involvement of the elders, God will bestow such gifts as He desires when a person is officially commissioned as apostle or prophet, or etc.

This idea that they are just for everyone, with no qualifiers on them, isn't Scriptural. They are for everyone when and if, and only if, each saint meets God's criteria for when He determines they are ready.

Otherwise, you see an awful lot of mistakes and abuses and hurt feelings and breaking of commandments regarding their use, whether we are speaking of the charismatic or even pentecostal or apostolic movements.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So getting back to the topic of the thread:


So for Chris Reed or anyone else to be counted as A PROPHET......how much truth must they believe in and teach? Another way of putting it would be how much doctrinal error can they have and be a real PROPHET?

Recall the man of God, a prophet, who lied to the other man of God, also a prophet, and compelled him to come in and dine, and God slew the second prophet after using the first prophet who lied, to tell the second prophet that he had disobeyed God would be killed?

1 Kings 13.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I asked a simple question.

No, tin-foil hat here. Because you are on record saying:



The worst part is that you asked this female poster to think and pray about her oneness position!



An Admin on an Apostolic forum, asking a Oneness person to open up a horizon of new possibilities that they could be wrong.

Astonishing!

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Love bears no records of wrong???

But in reality, I didn't ask Amanah to reconsider her Oneness view of the Godhead. I asked her to reconsider the alleged difference in anointing she felt from a Holy-Spirit filled Trinity believing church meeting she was in versus a Holy-Spirit filled Oneness church meeting she was in since such experiences are subjective.

And asking someone to reconsider something isn't a sin, last time I checked, since it behooves us all to reconsider, from time to time, to keep ourselves on our spiritual toes.

Is this what's been sticking in your craw the whole time? You misunderstood and you've had it out for me ever since?

I have never once attempted to convert someone out of Oneness, here, or in my own personal life. I have no plans to ever do so.

For anyone keeping score, here is the thread Pressing_On is quoting from:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...hlight=horizon

Here is my first post in response to Amanah:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...48&postcount=5

Here is my second post, that Pressing_On selectively quoted and spun:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...67&postcount=9

I recommend, however, since I replied many times in that thread, that if anyone is interested, to read the whole thing, including my interactions with Pressing_On. You can then judge for yourself, without the selectivity and spin.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I recommend, however, since I replied many times in that thread, that if anyone is interested, to read the whole thing, including my interactions with Pressing_On. You can then judge for yourself, without the selectivity and spin.

Yes, please begin on page one of that thread. After all the heavy pontificating, nothing has changed.

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Recall the man of God, a prophet, who lied to the other man of God, also a prophet, and compelled him to come in and dine, and God slew the second prophet after using the first prophet who lied, to tell the second prophet that he had disobeyed God would be killed?

1 Kings 13.

That story has always bothered me.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

All 120 as far as I can tell, but there are compelling arguments for both views.

Thanks.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by diakonos

Reminded me of psychic John Edward.

The bible's litmus test of it all is to what God does it direct people.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

All 120 as far as I can tell, but there are compelling arguments for both views.

Really? How do you argue against “all”?


ἅπας
hapas
hap'-as
From G1 (as a particle of union) and G3956; absolutely all or (singular) every one: - all (things), every (one), whole.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Recall the man of God, a prophet, who lied to the other man of God, also a prophet, and compelled him to come in and dine, and God slew the second prophet after using the first prophet who lied, to tell the second prophet that he had disobeyed God would be killed?

1 Kings 13.

Even prophets can fail God.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Sister, I sincerely hope for your sake you are telling the truth.

Hy would she have reason to lie?🤔