The 'vile affection' is in regard to the individuals themselves to each other, not in regard to their affections for others, whether it's children, parents, or friends.
I am saying that one with vile affection is going to be affected in other realms of affection as well. Cannot help it. Their natures are tainted.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Leviticus 20:13 I do not get gays lesbians out of that scripture
A man lying with a man as with a woman is speaking about sexual relationships regardless of who sees it that way. That is what it is saying.
And Romans 1 was speaking of gentiles in contrast to Jews in chapter 2, showing that the gentile nations had homosexuality amongst them. Paul explains that originally everyone knew who God was, but pagan religions ca,e along due to people not glorifying God as God when they knew they should. So, God gave them over to heinous sins. And that includes men with men and women with women in perversion of homosexuality. And Paul's words describe homosexuality as vile affection and activities against nature. Paul said these states were recompence of their error. This signifies that the homosexuality had not positive note about it.
Read from more modern versions:
Leviticus 20:13 GW When a man has sexual intercourse with another man as with a woman, both men are doing something disgusting and must be put to death. They deserve to die.
Leviticus 20:13 GNB If a man has sexual relations with another man, they have done a disgusting thing, and both shall be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.
Romans 1:26-27 GNB Because they do this, God has given them over to shameful passions. Even the women pervert the natural use of their sex by unnatural acts. (27) In the same way the men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other. Men do shameful things with each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves the punishment they deserve for their wrongdoing.
Romans 1:26-27 GW For this reason God allowed their shameful passions to control them. Their women have exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. (27) Likewise, their men have given up natural sexual relations with women and burn with lust for each other. Men commit indecent acts with men, so they experience among themselves the punishment they deserve for their perversion.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
A man lying with a man as with a woman is speaking about sexual relationships regardless of who sees it that way. That is what it is saying.
And Romans 1 was speaking of gentiles in contrast to Jews in chapter 2, showing that the gentile nations had homosexuality amongst them. Paul explains that originally everyone knew who God was, but pagan religions ca,e along due to people not glorifying God as God when they knew they should. So, God gave them over to heinous sins. And that includes men with men and women with women in perversion of homosexuality. And Paul's words describe homosexuality as vile affection and activities against nature. Paul said these states were recompence of their error. This signifies that the homosexuality had not positive note about it.
Read from more modern versions:
Leviticus 20:13 GW When a man has sexual intercourse with another man as with a woman, both men are doing something disgusting and must be put to death. They deserve to die.
Leviticus 20:13 GNB If a man has sexual relations with another man, they have done a disgusting thing, and both shall be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.
Romans 1:26-27 GNB Because they do this, God has given them over to shameful passions. Even the women pervert the natural use of their sex by unnatural acts. (27) In the same way the men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other. Men do shameful things with each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves the punishment they deserve for their wrongdoing.
Romans 1:26-27 GW For this reason God allowed their shameful passions to control them. Their women have exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. (27) Likewise, their men have given up natural sexual relations with women and burn with lust for each other. Men commit indecent acts with men, so they experience among themselves the punishment they deserve for their perversion.
Aamzing you have to post against homosexuality on a "APOSTOLIC" forum. It's like bible 101.
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.
The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
I haven't seen the show and I'm not sure if I'd watch it if it came on. But I'd like to mention something for consideration.
1. Television is America's primary choice of entertainment. Some things on it are acceptable. Other things are not. It's a no brainer. We just pick and choose what we will watch. This goes with the territory. Those of us who choose to have a television have to be good soldiers and good stewards regarding it's use.
2. There are millions of gay families across America. Many have kids. Like it or not, that's a fact. Many of them are good parents who love their kids deeply... just as deeply as you and I do. The show simply reflects this reality. I know we'd like to pretend it doesn't exist and pretend that they are terrible monsters when it comes to parenting...but that's not entirely true.
3. The Bible, the most precious gift from God to us besides his abiding Spirit. It's the most powerful book ever written. And it's interpretations are varied and have been varied since ancient Israel. There are good people who seek to follow Jesus who hold to a more liberal interpretation of Scripture. We should be cautious with hateful words... no matter how righteous we feel our crusade is. What if some of our interpretations are wrong and when Christ returns we find many Christians that we relegated to Hell caught up with us?
I haven't seen the show and I'm not sure if I'd watch it if it came on. But I'd like to mention something for consideration.
1. Television is America's primary choice of entertainment. Some things on it are acceptable. Other things are not. It's a no brainer. We just pick and choose what we will watch. This goes with the territory. Those of us who choose to have a television have to be good soldiers and good stewards regarding it's use.
2. There are millions of gay families across America. Many have kids. Like it or not, that's a fact. Many of them are good parents who love their kids deeply... just as deeply as you and I do. The show simply reflects this reality. I know we'd like to pretend it doesn't exist and pretend that they are terrible monsters when it comes to parenting...but that's not entirely true.
3. The Bible, the most precious gift from God to us besides his abiding Spirit. It's the most powerful book ever written. And it's interpretations are varied and have been varied since ancient Israel. There are good people who seek to follow Jesus who hold to a more liberal interpretation of Scripture. We should be cautious with hateful words... no matter how righteous we feel our crusade is. What if some of our interpretations are wrong and when Christ returns we find many Christians that we relegated to Hell caught up with us?
Enough hot air here to fly a giant balloon. Sorry, Aquila. Sometimes you're on point, on this point I think you missed it terribly. It's one thing to be considerate, kind, gracious and try to see things from other angles, but the fact that homosexual relationships are more openly common than 10 years ago in no way justify the things you've said. First off, there are NOT millions of gay families. You just pulled that statistic out of thin air. I've seen the research for gay couples (not even including families) and the number isn't as high as you expect in percentage to population.
People who have a liberal interpretation of scripture that are bringing homosexual clergyman into their churches have fallen beyond false doctrine, but into a dangerous area where they are choosing to look the other way on gross perversion. Hateful words? We are calling homosexuality for what it is. It isn't a joke. It isn't cute. It's perversion. It violates the design of God. It mars His imprimatur that he created upon mankind. He hates homosexuality. We should see sin how He does.
It's not about pretending it doesn't exist, it's digging your feet in the dirt for my children and theirs to not let this become an "acceptable norm" for our culture. It's a tolerated lifestyle, but in no ways considered a social norm. I pray that never changes. You also must interpret parenting categorically, and not holistically. Being a parent is more than just behavior toward a child (in that, I'm sure gay parents are great). But the modeling parents transfer to children cannot be overrated. It's critical. Additionally, the modeling we as a culture do to our future generations is critical.
So it's not enlightening, wise or a matter of applause that someone can reason themselves through this. The show is horrible. It's sickening. It's not right. If you feel practicing homosexuals will be caught up in heaven, I pray your right. But in the meantime, take the duct tape off your mouth and call sin for what it is, eliminating the watering down of the voice of clarity the church should be conveying. Say it in love. But say what you mean.
I'm frankly surprised with your position here, Aquila.
We live in a messed up world......But redeption is coming!!! "Fear NOT for I have overcome the world..."
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
I am saying that one with vile affection is going to be affected in other realms of affection as well. Cannot help it. Their natures are tainted.
I don't understand that. Even among 'normal' people, we have different affections for different people in our lives.
My affections for my children differ from the affections I have for my friends, my mother, and even that of my boyfriend. But let's say I have a girlfriend instead...I'm not sure how that 'vile affection' toward her affects the affections I have for my children, other family, and my friends.
The only 'vile affection' there is in my life is the affection for a girlfriend, not the affection for my children, etc.
When I was almost through with nursing school, I was precepted by a nurse who was a lesbian. She was a great nurse, and it was obvious that her affections for her patients were genuine. As I watched her, I picked up on several areas that I wanted to improve in my own nursing career in how I dealt with people.
But it wasn't until almost the end of my clinical that I find out she's lesbian. I hadn't a clue. I just don't see where her affection to her patients is vile because she's gay. I just don't see it.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
It's not about pretending it doesn't exist, it's digging your feet in the dirt for my children and theirs to not let this become an "acceptable norm" for our culture. It's a tolerated lifestyle, but in no ways considered a social norm. I pray that never changes. You also must interpret parenting categorically, and not holistically. Being a parent is more than just behavior toward a child (in that, I'm sure gay parents are great). But the modeling parents transfer to children cannot be overrated. It's critical. Additionally, the modeling we as a culture do to our future generations is critical.
Jeff, you have said something I've also been trying to convey. While I don't agree with the lifestyle, to me, it's not much different than other lifestyles people lead that affect children even to the point of affecting their parenting. This is what I've been trying to say from post one. Gay parents don't bother me as long as they are good parents (in that respect alone, although their being gay bothers me), but hetero parents who abuse their children, turning them into criminals, hateful individuals, or bad parents themselves really burns me up.
That last sentence is also vital. Good post.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
I have the feeling that most of us would be two squeemish to be loving Christians in the culture of ancient Rome. It's not for us to control the world. It's for us to live for God as individuals in a fallen world. This isn't something to fight, nor is it something we can successfully fight. The best way to deal with this is personally live our values and teach them to our children. If we feel this strongly about it, we should avoid this kind of programming as much as possible and raise our children according to our values.
As for "parenting". I know a gay engineer who is divorced and has custody of his kids. His wife is strung out on drugs. He is a very involved father. To see him with his kids is enlightening. Sometimes I feel he gives them far more time, attention, and even spiritual instruction (he's a devout Episcopal) than I do my kids. Frankly, his parenting skills challenge me. We've prayed together, read the Bible together, and I've even been on a short spiritual retreat with him for an afternoon (that's a story for another day lol, trust me). He's a good guy. He's not an abusive monster. Now, we can disagree with his personal life choices all day long, but as a person, I'd never say anything to hurt him. My Apostolic church didn't offer me a bit of help when my mother died. Jim paid for my out of town hotel expenses when mom died. When I thanked him and told him he didn't have to... he said, "Hey, that's what Christians do." While we can take issue with some things about him... in some ways he's more Christian than many of us.
I'd like to know... do we take such a serious position against parents who raise their kids in homes where the man and woman aren't married?
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