Swinging Saints!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by CC1

Yup. That is the one documented instance I know of that happening in a UPC church.

This other stuff I am hearing is just unsubstantiated rumors.

There is also the story of a very successful Charismatic preacher from the 80's or early 90's somewhere in Oregon or Washington if memory serves me correct that had the same "spiritual husbands" and "spiritual wives" mess going on. Back on FCF or NFCF somone posted a link to some videos of services where men and women were "dancing in the spirit" or some such thing with their "spiritual husband or wife". That situation ended in disaster also. If I remember right someone who had been a member of that church actually posted on FCF or NFCF about what happened to that church. I think that pastor had some kind of Oneness background also.

Im not saying none of this has happened, but we need to be careful because not ever rumor is true and I have personal experience with how falsehoods get spread about churches and pastors.

However I have to wonder in these cases where they are knowingly getting involved in a false doctrine that leads to fornication of they have lost the Holy Spirit and gotten another spirit

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by U376977

If you are ignorant enough to think that this does not happen and everyone is lying about this sort of thing then no responce can convince you.

The name of the Bishop is none of your business, I will not give it. Suffice it to say that he was apostolic. The reason my pastor told me is also none of your business, I needed to know for a ministry purpose. As far as passing the information on to a higher authority is my pastors business and I did not ask, nor should you. DOES ANY ONE ELSE SEE THE ASININITY IN THIS, you being so nosey?

Wanting to test the validity of such a serious charge is not being nosey

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by U376977

Be careful, according to 1399 you must name them, report them, (and I assume pass whatever test will be done with the information), or you will be called untruthful.

why NOT report them?

A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

Purge this evil person from among you

Co 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife.
1Co 5:2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
1Co 5:3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing.
1Co 5:4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
1Co 5:5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
1Co 5:6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?
1Co 5:7 Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.
1Co 5:8 Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
1Co 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people--
1Co 5:10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler--not even to eat with such a one.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
1Co 5:13 God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Exactly. And Im not saying it can't happen, but for a board that roasts Thad alive for his rumors I am surprised how many are just accepting these as fact

Perhaps, Prax, it has to do with credibility and crying wolf? When one person says it, it is brushed off, and when another does, it is taken seriously. Think about it: Why would that be?

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Or anyone else....he disrespected you too

Trust me! I know! Part of my shock was due to the fact that his warped brain thought I might appreciate such a foul gesture.

[Esther]

Praxesas let me clarify something for you. I do not know if the pastor knows or not. Second, I do know the pastor has asked the couples to NOT do something specfic and they still do it. Many young people today do NOT respect authority as we do.

And I agree with the Bishop, I believe this generation hears and openly discusses sex to the point it is a non issue to them.

This is not about the organization as all organizations are made up of people. People sin. YET because we have the Holy Ghost to lead and direct us I would have expected that to stop folks from going in this direct. But as I was told they meet in the church and discuss it and invite others to join them.

Just as MB stated of the incident that happened to her at CHURCH folks don't respect others or the House of God to leave this stuff at the door. Too much personal information is being shared about their bedrooms!

You can choose to believe or not believe, I really don't care. All I'm looking for is this an isolated event? No, it appears it is not. Gladly, neither does it appear to be rampant across the organization. That I am thankful for.

What is the cost of this going on? For one thing, the one that told me about it now goes to church less, is not fellowshipping with others, because they now know to much, and they are just going to church and coming home. This is not good nor healthy for this couple. I would doubt ALL the couples in that church are involved in this. I didn't ask for a lot of details. My mouth was hanging open with disbelief that this could be happening.

And this is not a large church or 300 or more. It is in the Bible belt, so again, it was a shock to hear this is going on even now.

I went to bed last night wondering how I could let the pastor of this church know without exposing the person who told me. I would not want them further wounded by being approached to "testify" if you will against their peers.

I will probably discuss this with my pastor and see if he would like to handle this.

But I have seen to often the one who reports these things become the victim and I will not allow that to happen to this precious couple if I can avoid it in any way.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Trust me! I know! Part of my shock was due to the fact that his warped brain thought I might appreciate such a foul gesture.

What did your husband say when you told him?

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Wanting to test the validity of such a serious charge is not being nosey

Wanting names and details in this case isn't going to happen! IF he doesn't want to believe it I could care less. No names of a church no names of a person was given, nor any state.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Esther

What did your husband say when you told him?

I didn't tell my husband until after we had resigned our positions on staff and moved out of state. At the time, I think I didn't want to cause problems for the man's wife, who was one of my best friends. That did turn out to be a mistake, though. If I had it to do over, I think I would have told the pastor every single thing that happened, whether he wanted to hear it or not. There was a second incident, (of a different and worse sort) which I did tell my husband, and he went to the pastor. The pastor did try to address it (after we had already left), or at least he said he did. We weren't present, and I never received an apology, which I would have appreciated.

You wouldn't believe how shy and timid I was at one time, Esther. Even trying to tell someone about such an incident would have rendered me frozen and speechless.

Thank the LORD I have outgrown that now!!!!

[Esther]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I didn't tell my husband until after we had resigned our positions on staff and moved out of state. At the time, I think I didn't want to cause problems for the man's wife, who was one of my best friends. That did turn out to be a mistake, though. If I had it to do over, I think I would have told the pastor every single thing that happened, whether he wanted to hear it or not. There was a second incident, (of a different and worse sort) which I did tell my husband, and he went to the pastor. The pastor did try to address it (after we had already left), or at least he said he did. We weren't present, and I never received an apology, which I would have appreciated.

You wouldn't believe how shy and timid I was at one time, Esther. Even trying to tell someone about such an incident would have rendered me frozen and speechless.

Thank the LORD I have outgrown that now!!!!

I would because I used to be so shy I wouldn't say Hi, I would just mouth it.

I was so afraid of my parents that I was scared of doing something wrong or saying the wrong thing.

But I can understand why you want to protect your friend, and maturity makes you look back and say I should have handled that differently. If the same thing happened to you again, I know you would handle it different, with one of these