Guns: An Important Discussion

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Ferd

A martyr is one who dies for their faith.

It is not someone who dies not defending their family from a violent criminal bent on mayhem.

I seriously do not think a man will get extra credit points before the great thrown of judgement because he let some murdering rapist kill him and rape his wife instead of putting a bullet in the bad guys brain.

I also dont think a man will lose brownie points for blowing a bad guy away who just broke into his home with murderous intent.

It is one thing to die for Christ. It is an entirely different thing to allow the innocent to be molested so you can say you are a pacifist.

If one honestly believe that Jesus taught nonviolence, one isn't being a pacifist for the sake of being a pacifist. One is being obedient unto death.

Also... I don't think any Christian pacifist would do nothing and watch an innocent be molested. A Christian pacifist would strive to use non-violent means to protect.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Millions of American children have been brutally murdered at the hands of American "Doctors". Where is the TOTAL OUTRAGE!

Why is the President and Congress not moving to ban the horrific shedding of innocent blood?

It is ACCEPTABLE in the USA. America has become an evil nation. It is a nation that would elect a Communist as its president who once voted that IF a child should survive an abortion attempt it must be killed.

The Government is setting up the perfect storm for the greatest persecution against Christians ever. If you understand this now it will help you later to not be offened.

The scriptures must be fulfilled.

I can see it.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

....and if any man takes your wife for an hour, tell him he can have her for two?

The point was that as Christians it doesn't bode well to use lethal force to protect "things". And for Christian pacifists, being obedient requires non-violence. That doesn't mean that the Christian pacifist does nothing. They can do any of the following without violating the Christian ethic:

*rely on divine intervention - Depending on God to deliver miraculously.
*escape - Fleeing from the source of danger.
*ruse - Out smarting or using trickery to escape or to be released without injury.
*nonlethal force - Using non-lethal physical force to subdue an attacker to prevent injury to others including the attacker themselves.
*moral disarming - Speaking to the attacker with an appeal to conscience securing safety and release.
*martyrdom - Dying with the word of Jesus on your lips without inflicting injury or harm to the attacker.

[AreYouReady?]

I'm glad AFF has a lot of different perspectives on any one subject. It allows people to think about their own views. It will either strengthen their views or change their views.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

I'm glad AFF has a lot of different perspectives on any one subject. It allows people to think about their own views. It will either strengthen their views or change their views.

Amen.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Aquila

If one honestly believe that Jesus taught nonviolence, one isn't being a pacifist for the sake of being a pacifist. One is being obedient unto death.

Also... I don't think any Christian pacifist would do nothing and watch an innocent be molested. A Christian pacifist would strive to use non-violent means to protect.

...i dont know what non-violent means could possibly mean in the face of a violent person acting out in a violent way.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Aquila

If a robber puts a gun to your head and demands that you perform an immoral act... and you refuse on account of your desire to obey Jesus and he kills you... you're a martyr. Don't you realize... it's not about someone killing you over your religion. MOST DON'T CARE WHAT YOU BELIEVE. However, they will kill you over your desire to obey. Obedience brings martyrdom.

i can accept this. I prey if in that situation, i would have the faith to remain faithful even unto death...

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Ferd

...i dont know what non-violent means could possibly mean in the face of a violent person acting out in a violent way.

The use of non-violent means could be any of the following without violating the Christian ethic:

*rely on divine intervention - Depending on God to deliver miraculously.
*escape - Fleeing from the source of danger.
*ruse - Out smarting or using trickery to escape or to be released without injury.
*nonlethal force - Using non-lethal physical force to subdue an attacker to prevent injury to others including the attacker themselves.
*moral disarming - Speaking to the attacker with an appeal to conscience securing safety and release.
*martyrdom - Dying with the word of Jesus on your lips without inflicting injury or harm to the attacker.

Not all non-violent Christians believe in using nonlethal force. Some do... some don't.

[Aquila]

Would anyone here commit adultery, or a sexually immoral act, to save your family???

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Would anyone here commit adultery, or a sexually immoral act, to save your family???

Yes if I really thought it would. I believe God would forgive me. The scenario you propose is one that ethics classes bring up a lot. Conflicting choices. When all choices you have will result in some wrong so you have to decide which wrong you will do.

For example the Bible instructs us to be kind to one another and to turn the other cheek but if a violent evil person is threatening our family it is our duty to protect them and that may involve NOT being kind or turning the other cheek. I have absoultely no ethical dilemma in that situation. I will protect my family.