Faith Without Works...

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Okay, we have established that "good" faith inherently causes one to produce good works. That is the point of James.

That doesn't negate the fact that there are people who are calling their "bad" faith "good". The "don't judge me" crowd. It just means that they don't understand they do not have the faith that James is speaking of. I think that is really the issue.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I thought the topic was in the context of salvation. Those that teach salvation by faith do not teach works won't accompany faith

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Okay, we have established that "good" faith inherently causes one to produce good works. That is the point of James.

That doesn't negate the fact that there are people who are calling their "bad" faith "good". The "don't judge me" crowd. It just means that they don't understand they do not have the faith that James is speaking of. I think that is really the issue.

I disagree PO. It only takes one good work to justify a person's faith and living faith doesn't need to already be justified in order for it to exist.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I think that my faith includes my obedience and cannot be separated and it can't be relegated to something that I earn, it is who I am. It's that tightly woven.

Okay, I'm done for today. Have a good one!

You're a stubborn one

Cause and effect. I'm obedient because I believe. I'm disobedient when I'm not believing. Every sin goes back to something we are not believing to be true about God -- at a heart level.

The only thing tightly woven is God's grace around body

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I think that my faith includes my obedience and cannot be separated and it can't be relegated to something that I earn, it is who I am. It's that tightly woven.

Okay, I'm done for today. Have a good one!

I would say faith produces works and that once those works are produced then they are entertwined with your faith in such a way that the two cannot be separated. In other words, faith is first, then a work is produced, and from that moment on our faith is seen in that work.

The only other option is to view works and faith occuring simultaneously. I disagree with this view because it implies that every every hour we are without a work that we are in a state of dead faith awaiting our faith to come alive again only at the moment of our next work.

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by Socialite

You're a stubborn one

Cause and effect. I'm obedient because I believe. I'm disobedient when I'm not believing. Every sin goes back to something we are not believing to be true about God -- at a heart level.

The only thing tightly woven is God's grace around body

Your patience is impressive!

Enjoying your dialogues.

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I would say faith produces works and that once those works are produced then they are entertwined with your faith in such a way that the two cannot be separated. In other words, faith is first, then a work is produced, and from that moment on our faith is seen in that work.

The only other option is to view works and faith occuring simultaneously. I disagree with this view because it implies that every every hour we are without a work that we are in a state of dead faith awaiting our faith to come alive again only at the moment of our next work.

I like your style jfrog.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by noeticknight

Your patience is impressive!

Enjoying your dialogues.

Thanks, Noe.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by noeticknight

Your patience is impressive!

Enjoying your dialogues.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Okay, we have established that "good" faith inherently causes one to produce good works. That is the point of James.

That doesn't negate the fact that there are people who are calling their "bad" faith "good". The "don't judge me" crowd. It just means that they don't understand they do not have the faith that James is speaking of. I think that is really the issue.

I dunno, Sis. It sounds like you're "judging" the "don't judge me crowd" and calling their faith inherently "bad" without really defining why you think it's "bad."

If I were to say that, "I am justified entirely by the works of Jesus Christ at Calvary and never by my own works," is this an example of "bad faith?" If so, would it be fair for me to say that you think Jesus was "bad" at Calvary?

Of course not. Then I'd be unfair. "Bad faith" is usually defined as the actions of someone who doesn't keep their word and doesn't follow through with what they've promised. Thus, "bad faith" might be someone who at one time said they would follow Christ, but when the cares of life accumulated they left from following Him and pursued their own pleasures.

For those who have acknowledged that they were saved by their faith in Jesus Christ and have followed Him - for however long it may be - they are simply living and walking in faith in Christ. Nothing "bad" about that.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I dunno, Sis. It sounds like you're "judging" the "don't judge me crowd" and calling their faith inherently "bad" without really defining why you think it's "bad."

If I were to say that, "I am justified entirely by the works of Jesus Christ at Calvary and never by my own works," is this an example of "bad faith?" If so, would it be fair for me to say that you think Jesus was "bad" at Calvary?

Of course not. Then I'd be unfair. "Bad faith" is usually defined as the actions of someone who doesn't keep their word and doesn't follow through with what they've promised. Thus, "bad faith" might be someone who at one time said they would follow Christ, but when the cares of life accumulated they left from following Him and pursued their own pleasures.

For those who have acknowledged that they were saved by their faith in Jesus Christ and have followed Him - for however long it may be - they are simply living and walking in faith in Christ. Nothing "bad" about that.

Maybe sounds a bit like judging, but the Bible says to "judge with righteous judgment." You don't know the details and I'm not telling about it here.

But, it's false to do those things and call what you do faith. Like someone said earlier, "They sound like they need discipleship." I agree. That is probably the problem. And for the record, the people I am thinking of are not in the org. Hope that didn't disappoint anyone.