Faith without works is........

Jack Shephard · #1 06-28-2010, 03:17 AM

Talking about if there is no action to your salvation, i.e. reaching the lost, living well, etc., not that it takes works of tongues, etc to be saved. IMO. Just thought I would say that while I was thinking about it.

Mirth1981 · #2 06-28-2010, 07:48 AM

Faith without works is DEAD.

Just like James 2:20 says it is...

But what type of works is that verse talking about? It's talking about loving your neighbor and helping your brother or sister that is going through a hard time. No, it is NOT talking about speaking in tongues...or even being baptized. Yes, I have heard this verse twisted to say that it is proof that we're not saved simply by having faith and believing in Jesus Christ, but that we also need to exhibit works ie. baptism and speaking in tongues.

I think what James 2 is saying more than anything is that if you have true faith, you will naturally have good works i.e. loving your neighbor and helping your brothers/sisters in need. This is pretty basic.

James 2:14-17 (ESV)
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

*AQuietPlace* · #3 06-28-2010, 08:50 AM

"Faith without works is like a song you can't sing,
it's about as useless as a screen door on a submarine..."

- Rich Mullins

ouden katakrim · #4 06-28-2010, 12:01 PM

Faith without works is not necessarily dead. James epistle is more pragmatic than theological and didactic. Since we are saved by grace through faith, and that faith a gift, it is necessarily the case that at justification the faith that justifies is a faith that has no works, i.e the thief on the cross...so unless we become like the thief, helpless, hopeless and deedless, we will not evacuate our soul of presumptuous works and believe.

ouden

DAII · #5 06-28-2010, 12:14 PM

Honestly would love to see Godhead ninjas drinking Enseyite koolaid move from the Division AAA league engaging taxi cab driver/wrestler/theologians or atheists on topics like the existence of One God which 99.99% of Christianity or the evils the Obama administration ... And honestly engage those within their own movement who differ with them on holiness standards and the doctrine of essential invocation in baptism in order to be saved and remi sins.

TheLegalist · #6 06-28-2010, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ouden katakrim

Faith without works is not necessarily dead. James epistle is more pragmatic than theological and didactic. Since we are saved by grace through faith, and that faith a gift, it is necessarily the case that at justification the faith that justifies is a faith that has no works, i.e the thief on the cross...so unless we become like the thief, helpless, hopeless and deedless, we will not evacuate our soul of presumptuous works and believe.

ouden

yeah.... not didactic.. LOL! So says the faith only guy. Faith is not a gift, GRACE isthe gift in Eph 2:8

Cindy · #7 06-28-2010, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII

Honestly would love to see Godhead ninjas drinking Enseyite koolaid move from the Division AAA league engaging taxi cab driver/wrestler/theologians or atheists on topics like the existence of One God which 99.99% of Christianity or the evils the Obama administration ... And honestly engage those within their own movement who differ with them on holiness standards and the doctrine of essential invocation in baptism in order to be saved and remi sins.

Whut?

SteppingStone · #8 06-28-2010, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

yeah.... not didactic.. LOL! So says the faith only guy. Faith is not a gift, GRACE isthe gift in Eph 2:8

Faith is actually a gift..

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

Romans 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

The reality is that some don't even have faith that's why you don't see any fruit of their labors being produced. Simply believing there's a God is not really faith, that's just believing. We "Believe" unto salvation and if we continue forward and believe on Christ according to the scriptures, then rivers of living waters will proceed from within us. And the greatest act of faith is loving your enemies (Takes a lot of virtue) because loving those that love you back is very easy to do..

Hoovie · #9 06-28-2010, 02:13 PM

"Faith without works is DEAD"

"Faith without works is not necessarily dead"

"Faith is not a gift,"

"Faith is actually a gift.."

Hey Timmy, is there room for me on your side? I feel a strange sort of cocoon forming around me.... sort of like I am about to be born again into a new world of skepticism...

SeekingOne · #10 06-28-2010, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Talking about if there is no action to your salvation, i.e. reaching the lost, living well, etc., not that it takes works of tongues, etc to be saved. IMO. Just thought I would say that while I was thinking about it.

Soooo very interesting that you posted this. It sort of goes along with something I was trying to get across to someone yesterday.

It is hard to help people, including myself, put into words that we are saved by grace, but if we are saved we will naturally do things like Christ. But, those things that we do are not what saves us.

The best I came up with, was an example of a young boy that wanted his dad to come to his orchestra programs. His dad would go out with friends or work on days and evenings that his son was playing.

His dad loves his son, but has no interest in attending these functions. His son sees his dad's lack of interest as a lack of love.

So, his son judges that his dad doesn't love him. But does that make it a fact? Can his dad still love him, but be lame in showing that love?

How about the father that gets angry and hits his son or daughter. Does that mean he doesn't love them, or that he just has a problem that needs to be fixed, and sin that needs to be repented of?

THAT is why I believe that if we encourage people to focus on Jesus and how great His love is for us, we would have more people being like Jesus. If we focus on what WE believe THEY should be doing to PROVE their love, we teach them performance based love and religion.

See what a terrible job I did at explaining myself? LOL It's like we know what it means the faith without works is dead, but it is hard to get past expecting that if WE don't see the works WE can judge if they are Christians.