Proof Of Soul Sleep - Page 14

easter · #**131** 10-28-2009, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerechHashem

Bottom line is King Saul was looking for help from the witch of Endor, to contact someone in the grave, a dead Samuel, so that he could know from God how he could gain a victory over the Philistines.

But God was not talking to Saul any more.

By knowing what the Bible teaches about the state of the dead, and the circumstances regarding Saul's relationship with God at the time, we can be quite certain that it was not actually Samuel raised from the dead speaking to him, but a fallen angel, a demonic spirit.

That Saul even attempted this séance with a spirit medium (witch) was an abomination, a further rebellion against God, and Saul paid for his rebellion with his life.

1 Chr 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking (counsel) of (one that had) a familiar spirit, to inquire (of it);
1 Chr 10:14 And inquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.

The words in paranthesis in verse 13 are supplied by the translator, as they are not in the original text.

So if you drop those words, it reads:

So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking of a familiar spirit, to inquire;

So the passage above clearly states, Saul communicated with a demonic spirit, not Samuel.

Peace and love

The Bible does not clearly state that Saul communicated with a demonic spirit.In fact the Bible clearly states the spirit was Samuel.If this was a familiar Spirit or a demonic spirit the Bible would not over look this by calling the spirit Samuel.
Now you spoke in another post of yours about keeping the word of God in context.By dropping words to fit your theory is most definitely taking word or rather lack of words out of context.

DerechHashem · #**132** 10-28-2009, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by easter

The Bible does not clearly state that Saul communicated with a demonic spirit. [1]In fact the Bible clearly states the spirit was Samuel.If this was a familiar Spirit or a demonic spirit the Bible would not over look this by calling the spirit Samuel.
Now you spoke in another post of yours about keeping the word of God in context.By dropping words to fit your theory is most definitely taking word or rather lack of words out of context.

Quote:

If this was a familiar Spirit or a demonic spirit the Bible would not over look this by calling the spirit Samuel.

Why not? Prove the bible would not do so! If this is only relating a story in the third person, then it can do it that way or any other way. Prove it cannot be told that way.

Quote:

Now you spoke in another post of yours about keeping the word of God in context. By dropping words to fit your theory is most definitely taking word or rather lack of words out of context.

And I stand by that. What lack of words, look at 1Samuel 28:14, you will see he only assumed it was Samuel, he spoke THROUGH the witch the whole time. Again Context.

And he said unto her, What form [is] he of? [2]And she said, An old man cometh up; and he [is] covered with a mantle. [3]And Saul perceived that it [was] Samuel, [4]and he stooped with [his] face to the ground, and bowed himself. 1Samuel 28:14

[1] And he said unto her, What form [is] he of? Saul NEVER saw him.

[2] And she said, An old man cometh up; and he [is] covered with a mantle. She describe not Samuel but something "coming up", and this spirit wore a "mantle (sign of authority).

[3] And Saul perceived that it [was] Samuel. Saul only PERCEIVED it was Samuel.

Perceived: Have a sense, detected by instinct or inference rather than by recognized perceptual cues.

[4]and he stooped with [his] face to the ground, and bowed himself. Saul bowed down to a spirit, how wretched!

Now you may believe what you wish! You wish to believe in witches, ghosts, spirits that go boo in the night, thats your right.

You have not proved me a liar, you only proved that I stand accused by your beliefs. You seem angered about it.

I hope this topic is not upsetting you.

DerechHashem · #**133** 10-28-2009, 09:02 PM

I could create a thread on the WITCH of Endor, and we could discuss the WHOLE chapter if you wish.

easter · #**134** 10-28-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerechHashem

I could create a thread on the WITCH of Endor, and we could discuss the WHOLE chapter if you wish.

Heaven's no your not upsetting me.However to save myself some time here, you could read through the thread"What's the point of the Resurrection"?

If you want to examine soul-sleep we can.
If you want to examine the Witch of Endor we can.

easter · #**135** 10-28-2009, 09:18 PM

You talk of believing in ghost,witches and spirits.Why?You don't believe these things exist?

DerechHashem · #**136** 10-28-2009, 09:32 PM

Ghosts - No
Witches - No, exept those who claim they are one, or those who put confidence in one. They deserve their Judgement.

Spirits:

God - yes.
His Holy Spirit - yes.
His Angels - yes.
Fallen Angels - yes.
Man - No.

easter · #**137** 10-28-2009, 09:36 PM

Clearly witches exist or God would not call this practice an abomination to him.
Clearly we all understand that "ghost IS ONLY ANOTHER NAME FOR A SPIRIT.
Clearly spirits exists.If your saved and sealed then you've got one living inside of you of course that being the Holy Spirit.

DerechHashem · #**138** 10-29-2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by easter

Clearly witches exist or God would not call this practice an abomination to him.
Clearly we all understand that "ghost IS ONLY ANOTHER NAME FOR A SPIRIT.
Clearly spirits exists.If your saved and sealed then you've got one living inside of you of course that being the Holy Spirit.

Ghosts - No
Witches - No, exept those who claim they are one, or those who put confidence in one. They deserve their Judgement.

Spirits:

God - yes.
His Holy Spirit - yes.
His Angels - yes.
Fallen Angels - yes.
Man - No.

I didn't say witches don't exist, I said I don't believe in them, they are happless benign creatures who deserve their punishment.

I don't believe in ghost, such as my dead Father, Grandmother, etc. They are dead and buried awaiting judgment at the resurrection.

easter · #**139** 10-29-2009, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerechHashem

Ghosts - No
Witches - No, exept those who claim they are one, or those who put confidence in one. They deserve their Judgement.

Spirits:

God - yes.
His Holy Spirit - yes.
His Angels - yes.
Fallen Angels - yes.
Man - No.

I didn't say witches don't exist, I said I don't believe in them, they are happless benign creatures who deserve their punishment.

I don't believe in ghost, such as my dead Father, Grandmother, etc. They are dead and buried awaiting judgment at the resurrection.

So what your saying here is besides our Lord Jesus(Being the first fruit) rising from the dead that no other has ever rose from the dead?That no one has ever seen the (Ghost) spirit of one who has died?

DerechHashem · #**140** 10-29-2009, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by easter

So what your saying here is besides our Lord Jesus(Being the first fruit) rising from the dead that no other has ever rose from the dead?That no one has ever seen the (Ghost) spirit of one who has died?

Easter - So what your saying here is besides our Lord Jesus(Being the first fruit) rising from the dead that no other has ever rose from the dead?

Me - Not with a resurrected immortal uncorruptable body.

Easter - That no one has ever seen the (Ghost) spirit of one who has died?

Me - Nope, it wasn't a departed loved one.

Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Eccl 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Eccl 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

The dead know not anything, everything about them perishes, including their conscious mind. They remain this way until their resurrection.

Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Psa 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Even the thoughts of the dead perish with them when they lose their soul (the spark of life).

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The dead are sleeping until their resurrection, that is when they will awake.