The Other General Conference in Houston 9.13-15

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Promoting social justice is not preaching prosperity doctrine. The purpose of social justice is to serve others, defend the weak, help the oppressed, take care of the poor, the orphans and widows.

The crux of the prosperity doctrine is that God provides material prosperity for those he favors, and that if you do x or z you will have more favor and therefore have more prosperity. It's tag lines through the year: Name it and claim it, blab it and grab it, the Baker's PTL,

Jesus himself lived a transient life, his needs provided but surely not aspiring to great wealth.

Prosperity teachers are ethoncentric egoists that combine the American Dream with the Kingdom Dream, as if the goal is to be wealthier.

Prosperity teachers are partly at-fault for the housing crisis, telling their congregants to buy homes, take "steps of faith," build wealth, etc... There is no separate from practical stewardship and one's spiritual perspective of God. Preachers overnight became Financial Counselors.

From Eddie Long, Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar (appropriate), Bennie Hinn to even Paula White. Add in names like TD Jakes and Kenneth Hagin just for fun.

Prosperity teachers usually teach on an individualistic manner. And suggesting an economic system or way of life to bring more wealth is not the same as suggesting it is God's will that all have riches and earthly treasures. An economic system does not a spiritual principle make.

He told us to take care of one another. Not to create a doctrine that says you are more favored by God if you have more.

It's worldiness. It's disgusting. It deserves the rebuke it's received.

1 Timothy 6
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Promoting social justice is not preaching prosperity doctrine. The purpose of social justice is to serve others, defend the weak, help the oppressed, take care of the poor, the orphans and widows.

The crux of the prosperity doctrine is that God provides material prosperity for those he favors, and that if you do x or z you will have more favor and therefore have more prosperity. It's tag lines through the year: Name it and claim it, blab it and grab it, the Baker's PTL,

Jesus himself lived a transient life, his needs provided but surely not aspiring to great wealth.

Prosperity teachers are ethoncentric egoists that combine the American Dream with the Kingdom Dream, as if the goal is to be wealthier.

Prosperity teachers are partly at-fault for the housing crisis, telling their congregants to buy homes, take "steps of faith," build wealth, etc... There is no separate from practical stewardship and one's spiritual perspective of God. Preachers overnight became Financial Counselors.

From Eddie Long, Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar (appropriate), Bennie Hinn to even Paula White. Add in names like TD Jakes and Kenneth Hagin just for fun.

Prosperity teachers usually teach on an individualistic manner. And suggesting an economic system or way of life to bring more wealth is not the same as suggesting it is God's will that all have riches and earthly treasures. An economic system does not a spiritual principle make.

He told us to take care of one another. Not to create a doctrine that says you are more favored by God if you have more.

It's worldiness. It's disgusting. It deserves the rebuke it's received.

Teaching people to prosper is a nice way to borrow a stigmatized word (appropriately so), but it's not teaching them to prosper that is concerning. It's how some go about teaching them. The "whys," the theology they put behind it, the manipulation in some parts... it's an inadequate view of God.

God is Sovereign. Many of our early 1st century brothers and sisters knew little of wealth, but much of poverty and persecution. We can't turn the concept of living wealthier into a theology.

I actually read up on him to see if that was his real given name. At first, I didn't believe it!

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Promoting social justice is not preaching prosperity doctrine. The purpose of social justice is to serve others, defend the weak, help the oppressed, take care of the poor, the orphans and widows.

The crux of the prosperity doctrine is that God provides material prosperity for those he favors, and that if you do x or z you will have more favor and therefore have more prosperity. It's tag lines through the year: Name it and claim it, blab it and grab it, the Baker's PTL,

Jesus himself lived a transient life, his needs provided but surely not aspiring to great wealth.

Prosperity teachers are ethoncentric egoists that combine the American Dream with the Kingdom Dream, as if the goal is to be wealthier.

Prosperity teachers are partly at-fault for the housing crisis, telling their congregants to buy homes, take "steps of faith," build wealth, etc... There is no separate from practical stewardship and one's spiritual perspective of God. Preachers overnight became Financial Counselors.

From Eddie Long, Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar (appropriate), Bennie Hinn to even Paula White. Add in names like TD Jakes and Kenneth Hagin just for fun.

Prosperity teachers usually teach on an individualistic manner. And suggesting an economic system or way of life to bring more wealth is not the same as suggesting it is God's will that all have riches and earthly treasures. An economic system does not a spiritual principle make.

He told us to take care of one another. Not to create a doctrine that says you are more favored by God if you have more.

It's worldiness. It's disgusting. It deserves the rebuke it's received.

Teaching people to prosper is a nice way to borrow a stigmatized word (appropriately so), but it's not teaching them to prosper that is concerning. It's how some go about teaching them. The "whys," the theology they put behind it, the manipulation in some parts... it's an inadequate view of God.

God is Sovereign. Many of our early 1st century brothers and sisters knew little of wealth, but much of poverty and persecution. We can't turn the concept of living wealthier into a theology.

I agree with MOST of this. But I would say that we preach that God wants us to prosper. However, we always teach that He blesses us to be a funnel, not a sponge. I think it's all in BALANCE.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Sherri

I agree with MOST of this. But I would say that we preach that God wants us to prosper. However, we always teach that He blesses us to be a funnel, not a sponge. I think it's all in BALANCE.

Prosper in which way? How do we use the word? Most agree this includes financially -- however, if people aren't financially set, are they not living in God's will? Can God call people to a life of poverty just as he can place people in the life of riches? Is this a universal call?

Jeremiah 29:11 has an immediate audience of an enslaved nation, the immediate meaning of the words are God's literal promise to rebuild Israel. This is how The Message puts it:

This is God's Word on the subject: "As soon as Babylon's seventy years are up and not a day before, I'll show up and take care of you as I promised and bring you back home. I know what I'm doing. I have it all planned out—plans to take care of you, not abandon you, plans to give you the future you hope for.

Many take this without considering it's present meaning to create doctrines that God wants us to all be wealthy.

God wants to take care of us -- to be our Provider in every way. What he wants from us is trust. An apartment on Skid Row, a shack in Rawanda or a Mansion in Beverly Hills.... we can all trust God... it may be harder trusting him in Beverly Hills, but with God all things are possible

And yes, God's blessings to us in any form are ours for sharing, not storing. I agree.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Prosper in which way? How do we use the word? Most agree this includes financially -- however, if people aren't financially set, are they not living in God's will? Can God call people to a life of poverty just as he can place people in the life of riches? Is this a universal call?

Jeremiah 29:11 has an immediate audience of an enslaved nation, the immediate meaning of the words are God's literal promise to rebuild Israel. This is how The Message puts it:

This is God's Word on the subject: "As soon as Babylon's seventy years are up and not a day before, I'll show up and take care of you as I promised and bring you back home. I know what I'm doing. I have it all planned out—plans to take care of you, not abandon you, plans to give you the future you hope for.

Many take this without considering it's present meaning to create doctrines that God wants us to all be wealthy.

God wants to take care of us -- to be our Provider in every way. What he wants from us is trust. An apartment on Skid Row, a shack in Rawanda or a Mansion in Beverly Hills.... we can all trust God... it may be harder trusting him in Beverly Hills, but with God all things are possible

And yes, God's blessings to us in any form are ours for sharing, not storing. I agree.

You're DEAD-ON!! Keep it up. III John verse 2 tells us to prosper in all things...and be in health. Clearly, it's John's WISH for people and he's praying that they will. But that's a LONG way from saying that God wants us all to prosper. And if He DOES want us to "Prosper", what does that mean? That certainly CANNOT mean that God wants us all to do well financially. Hebrews 11 describes many that were:

"tortured, preferring to die rather than turn from God and be free. They placed their hope in the resurrection to a better life. Some were mocked, and their backs were cut open with whips. Others were chained in dungeons.
Some died by stoning, and some were sawed in half; others were killed with the sword. Some went about in skins of sheep and goats, hungry and oppressed and mistreated."

Let's talk to THESE people about prospering.

Let's send Creflo Dollar to Haiti and have him tell all the Christians there that they should be driving Beemers.

[Scott Hutchinson]

The Lord will supply our needs,how do believers in Muslim countries proper materially ?
And no God gets no glory in poverty.Was Paul prosperous while in prison or under house arrest ?

[Sherri]

Well, we didn't get to go to Houston after all. Cancelled everything at the last minute - some stuff came up here at church and we didn't feel like we could leave. I'm going to miss seeing everyone!!

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Well, we didn't get to go to Houston after all. Cancelled everything at the last minute - some stuff came up here at church and we didn't feel like we could leave. I'm going to miss seeing everyone!!

Was hoping to see you guys.

[Sherri]

Yeah, you too!! We're keeping your sister and BIL busy these days!

[DAII]

Got to go to the to last service ... where Brett Jones closed out with a great message on going from "Glory to Glory" ... I couldn't help but think some of his references were directed at those UPCI ministers in the crowd who are thinking about leaving and moving on to other glorious dimensions in God ... from the wilderness to the promise land

I won't drop names but there were several current UPCI ministers in attendance ... as well as a veritable who's who of the past ... liberal rabble rousers.

All stated it was one of the best conferences they had been to..
Most importantly, the Holy Spirit manifested.

I enjoyed the after party last night ... was shocked that a handful are reading here at AFF.

As for Joel Osteen ... I understand he didn't "speak" per se ...

He was interviewed by Scott Jones, the chairman .... a UPCI minister remarked that they were stunned by Osteen's humility

The consensus was that Chris Hodges, who spoke multiple times, stole the show.