The AFF Cesspool of Compromise

[Justin]

Originally Posted by D. Wright

Some on AMF are disappointed that AFF didn't fold when they left.

Maybe they should pray harder? Or fast longer? After all... "these things will not go out but by prayer and fasting". If having faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains... I'm sure they can "muster" up enough faith the shut down lil' ole' AFF.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

But if you joined a club and agreed to the rules, don't you think you should abide by the rules? Isn't that part and parcel with being honest?

It's part and parcel with being "in agreement," however agreements can change and they do. That's a fundamental part all human relationships.

When I was a UPCI minister I agreed to not write or speak against the org. I was still literally thrown out of the fellowship through no fault of my own. When they demanded that I sit and be chastised for the sin in their camp, frankly my righteous indignation became a volcano and I could not sit still for that.

It turned out that adultery, deceit and cover ups were all a part of the "agreement" that I had entered into. I had no intention of participating in that even though technically, I had "agreed" to it years before.

Even though I had agreed to never write or speak against the org, my understanding now is that the org. let me down and failed to live up to its end of the deal. Being in default, the org. is now the object of my criticism whenever it is warranted. And by "org." I mean the whole "Apostolic complex."

Though I cannot speak for the people who "cut-and-pasted" the APF thread, I think a similar principle may be involved. (And FWIW - it seems that there were several people who have come forward over there - at least that's what I've heard).

I don't know what the APF rules are, but from my past experiences with these forums the "rules" do tend to get made up as they go along. I was on one private forum where one of the owners started a thread questioning the veracity of many of the traditional historical claims of Oneness Pentecostalism. I responded in agreement and another owner jumped right in and threatened to ban me. He said that I was "on thin ice" for even questioning these things. There were no rules which stated that - and the same questions had just been asked by another owner. I learned then - that there really are no rules - just the variable mood swings of the owners.

To think that there are always hard fast rules set in stone that govern the behavior of these forums has proven to be not true - at least in my experience. It's just like my departure from the Oneness Apostolic ministry. I had thought that adultery was prohibited by our agreement. Turns out the more fundamental and much more important "principle" was protecting your good ol' boy buddies. This was an unwritten rule that I was expected to have known somehow.

While I still highly respect most of my past associates and friends I simply cannot play by the "rules" that governed our previous agreements. Even your most strident "rules" are like jello nailed to the wall. These "rules" will be flaunted, twisted and abused all in a pursuit of "status" in the herd.

Those who have expressed concern for real principles I would humbly admonish. I was young, faithful and highly idealistic once as well. The "powers that be" simply used my idealism to get laid. The sum total of my ministerial experience - the fruit of the labor of the best and most productive years of my life was that some guys got to sleep around. That troubles me.

Sorry to be so crude - but I really want you to think about that. All of the plaques and awards that I was given given for my service in the org. really mean nothing - the biggest and most lasting contribution was that other guys scored with their secretaries.

AND - I know full well that my personal identity is known to many if not most of the folks at APF and the other "closed" forums. You know me - or at least you know folks who know my story. Stop looking for scapegoats on your forums. I posted the threads. I did. Come after me. Just be prepared for the light of day to shine (2 Corinthians 4:6).

[Charnock]

Edward Anglin here.

It is no secret that I do not like what AFF has become. What hurts the most is that I truly did cherish my time here, and invested a lot of keystrokes defending you. To see it descend into an anything goes free-for-all is very, very sad.

That being said, I confess that I am not surprised at what Pel posted from APF. Why are you? These men have behaved in this fashion for years.

Some of them have lied to, failed morally with, and "ratted" out, non-conformist preachers and posters on multiple occasions.

The irony is rich.

The guys who are whining about "rats" and spies are the same guys who call District officials when a preacher posts something they don't agree with.

[James Griffin]

I have friends in both camps and several forums, none of which can claim the moral high ground in all instances, including myself.


It does grieve me to a degree that some with whom I esteem in the possible highest regard seem to be of the current opinion that it is necessary to climb in the pig pen in order to draw attraction to the pigs.


I expect the ultra conservatives to be holiness police, and maybe it is therefore unfair to be disturbed when the moderates take that mantle upon themselves, nevertheless I am.


Can we at least agree that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God?


And that love does not ignore, grace does not overlook, but both seek to cover, to pray for, exhort and love in spite of, not because of.

I see a lot of outrage, and will not even pretend it is unjustified, and yet I look in vain for love and grace to manifest.


Going back into the corner, but not without breathing a prayer for my hurting brothers first:


God grant them peace, love and grace.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

I have friends in both camps and several forums, none of which can claim the moral high ground in all instances, including myself.


It does grieve me to a degree that some with whom I esteem in the possible highest regard seem to be of the current opinion that it is necessary to climb in the pig pen in order to draw attraction to the pigs.


I expect the ultra conservatives to be holiness police, and maybe it is therefore unfair to be disturbed when the moderates take that mantle upon themselves, nevertheless I am.


Can we at least agree that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God?


And that love does not ignore, grace does not overlook, but both seek to cover, to pray for, exhort and love in spite of, not because of.

I see a lot of outrage, and will not even pretend it is unjustified, and yet I look in vain for love and grace to manifest.


Going back into the corner, but not without breathing a prayer for my hurting brothers first:


God grant them peace, love and grace.

Well said! ....especially since we deal with eternal matters.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Charnock

Edward Anglin here.

It is no secret that I do not like what AFF has become. What hurts the most is that I truly did cherish my time here, and invested a lot of keystrokes defending you. To see it descend into an anything goes free-for-all is very, very sad.

That being said, I confess that I am not surprised at what Pel posted from APF. Why are you? These men have behaved in this fashion for years.

Some of them have lied to, failed morally with, and "ratted" out, non-conformist preachers and posters on multiple occasions.

The irony is rich.

The guys who are whining about "rats" and spies are the same guys who call District officials when a preacher posts something they don't agree with.

Not surprised at all ... the behavior has been blatantly hypocritical for years ....

But the feigned victimization and flopping .... crying foul

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ukde193ivM

GETS STALE, OLD AND TIRESOME.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Charnock

That being said, I confess that I am not surprised at what Pel posted from APF. Why are you? These men have behaved in this fashion for years.

Some of them have lied to, failed morally with, and "ratted" out, non-conformist preachers and posters on multiple occasions.

The irony is rich.

The guys who are whining about "rats" and spies are the same guys who call District officials when a preacher posts something they don't agree with.

I think this statement is worth bolding and enlarging to size 5 font.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I think this statement is worth bolding and enlarging to size 5 font.

There is a double standard. This is one reason why the "ultra-cons" have always been able to pull the fellowship along in their direction. Shining a light on the games appears to be an effective way of raising awareness and mitigating their influence.

Oh, and "Hi Ed." Good to "see" you again.

[mrnbcox]

Conviction walks out the door when self justification walks in.

This was Sauls problem. People who care about self justification don't put much thought into what does God say

[TroubleMaker]

Originally Posted by mrnbcox

Conviction walks out the door when self justification walks in.

This was Sauls problem. People who care about self justification don't put much thought into what does God say

Wow, you know, you're right. I never gave one bit of thought into what does God say.