The Husband is the Head of the Wife - Page 13

Praxeas · #**121** 04-09-2007, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

What translation are you reading? I haven't seen the "the" left out of the ones I've read.

Just wondering.

ESV 1Co 11:3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

(AMP) But I want you to know and realize that Christ is the Head of every man, the head of a woman is her husband, and the Head of Christ is God.

(CEV) Now I want you to know that Christ is the head over all men, and a man is the head over a woman. But God is the head over Christ.

(GNB) But I want you to understand that Christ is supreme over every man, the husband is supreme over his wife, and God is supreme over Christ.
(LITV) But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

(NET.) But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

(RSV) But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

NET bible commentary
2 tn Or "the husband is the head of his wife." The same Greek words translated "man" and "woman" can mean, as determined by context, "husband" and "wife" respectively. Such an approach is followed by NAB, TEV, NRSV, and NLT (with some variations).

Pressing-On · #**122** 04-09-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

ESV 1Co 11:3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

(AMP) But I want you to know and realize that Christ is the Head of every man, the head of a woman is her husband, and the Head of Christ is God.

(CEV) Now I want you to know that Christ is the head over all men, and a man is the head over a woman. But God is the head over Christ.

(GNB) But I want you to understand that Christ is supreme over every man, the husband is supreme over his wife, and God is supreme over Christ.
(LITV) But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

(NET.) But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

(RSV) But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

NET bible commentary
2 tn Or "the husband is the head of his wife." The same Greek words translated "man" and "woman" can mean, as determined by context, "husband" and "wife" respectively. Such an approach is followed by NAB, TEV, NRSV, and NLT (with some variations).

Thank you, Prax. I think you posted that already. Sorry, I just remembered.

I think I see what Newman was pointing out on the translations. This is the big question. What is reliable to rest on?

I'm not backpedaling on what I wrote, just making that point, understand.

Joelel · #**123** 04-09-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Notice there is NO article before the greek word for woman....that means the word is indefinite...A is an indefinite article. When words in the greek lack definite articles they are usually considered indefinite unless there is a grammatical reason to view them otherwise.......The KJV is wrong there

Right...unless by covered Paul has in mind komaō...long hair. In other words, if she will not allow her hair to grow long and worn as a veil, she might as well be shorn.

Let's also notice again the context here

It's interesting that when Paul discusses praying or prophesying he immediately jumps to hair...and hair being a covering
1Co 11:13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
1Co 11:14 Does not nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace for him,
1Co 11:15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering.

Yes, but the word covered don't even mean hair,so it can't mean long hair.The word covered in Greek means veil.Not only that Paul started out talking about being veiled when praying and prophecy,not all the time.You can't take your hair on and off as you do a veil.Paul wrote 13 verses before he even spoke about hair.If Paul was talking about hair or long hair being the covering he would have said hair or long hair,not veil.

Praxeas · #**124** 04-09-2007, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joelel

Yes, but the word covered don't even mean hair,so it can't mean long hair.The word covered in Greek means veil.Not only that Paul started out talking about being veiled when praying and prophecy,not all the time.You can't take your hair on and off as you do a veil.Paul wrote 13 verses before he even spoke about hair.If Paul was talking about hair or long hair being the covering he would have said hair or long hair,not veil.

Or he would have said
1Co 11:15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering.

Pressing-On · #**125** 04-09-2007, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

What is reliable to rest on?

Prax,

Just wanted to put out these translations which say "the" and not "a" and again ask the above question, "Which text is the reliable source?"

Frankly, I don't see it changing the meaning at all, but we have it almost half and half between "the" and "a".

(NIV) Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

(ASV) But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

(KJV) But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

(NKJV)But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

(Holman Christian Standard) But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of the woman, and God is the head of Christ.

(Third Millennium Bble) But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God.

(NIV) Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

(The Douay-Rheims Bible) But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man: and the head of Christ is God.

Joelel · #**126** 04-09-2007, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Or he would have said
1Co 11:15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering.

Yes but it was and still is a custom for the Jews to wear a veil when they pray at the wailing wall.

Praxeas · #**127** 04-09-2007, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Prax,

Just wanted to put out these translations which say "the" and not "a" and again ask the above question, "Which text is the reliable source?"

Frankly, I don't see it changing the meaning at all, but we have it almost half and half between "the" and "a".

(NIV) Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

(ASV) But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

(KJV) But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

(NKJV)But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

(Holman Christian Standard) But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of the woman, and God is the head of Christ.

(Third Millennium Bble) But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God.

(NIV) Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

(The Douay-Rheims Bible) But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man: and the head of Christ is God.

Again...It is not "the text"....the greek has NO definite article. The greek text used by the KJV has NO definite article. Unless there is a specific grammatical rule someone can point out here then when no article is present a noun is considered indefinite...

John 4:24 "God is Spirit"...there is no article in the greek so we don't say "God is the Spirit"...you can also say "God is A Spirit". These other translations are adding the article "the" for whatever reason. Often translatoins don't always "translate" but carry over from a previous translation not bothering ot think for themselves

Praxeas · #**128** 04-09-2007, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joelel

Yes but it was and still is a custom for the Jews to wear a veil when they pray at the wailing wall.

ok

Pressing-On · #**129** 04-09-2007, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Again...It is not "the text"....the greek has NO definite article. The greek text used by the KJV has NO definite article. Unless there is a specific grammatical rule someone can point out here then when no article is present a noun is considered indefinite...

John 4:24 "God is Spirit"...there is no article in the greek so we don't say "God is the Spirit"...you can also say "God is A Spirit". These other translations are adding the article "the" for whatever reason. Often translatoins don't always "translate" but carry over from a previous translation not bothering ot think for themselves

Thanks, Prax. It's hard to be serious with you when you are wearing a hat made of foil. LOL!

Steve Epley · #**130** 04-10-2007, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Submission is NOT an ugly word.
Saints are to submit themselves to God. James 4:7
Saints are to submit to each other. Eph. 5:21
Saints are to submit ot civil authorities. 1Pet. 2:13
Saints are to submit to those have the rule of them spiritually. Heb. 13:7,17
Wives are to submit to their own husbands. Eph.5:22
If women are equal in authority then:
Then Christ is NOT the Head of the church BECAUSE the church is subject to Christ as a wife is subject to her husband. Eph.5:23-24
Paul was incorrect in saying it was FIT unto the Lord for wives to submit to their husbands. Col. 3:18
Then evidently the word of God is NOT blaspmemed as Paul declared when women are not obedient to their husbands. Titus 2:5
The example given of godly women in the OT by Peter 1 Pet. 3:1-7 is incorrect and thus culture again trumps Biblical precedent.
The FACT is:
God in the curse commanded women that "thy desire shall be to thy husband, and HE SHALL RULE OVER THEE." Gen. 3:16
If this curse has been lifted then do you ladies:
have sorrow in conception and does sorrow accompany child birth???????
If NOT then the man is ruler over women in 2007.
Culture has NOT eliminated the curse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now this question how could I be the ruler in my own house and my wife must Biblically submit to me THEN go to church and me submit to someone else's wife??????????????????????????????????????????

Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!