Show Me the Money

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

You almost have it right. I am not simply accountable to God, I am also accountable to God's sheep, whom I serve. I am not a King, Lord or anything of that nature. I am a SERVANT! Don't people understand that simple, biblical and Jesus demonstrated concept?

Who do some men of God think they are by their demanding, conscripting and commandeering of funds? I wonder how Jesus feels when these men of God resort to their own methods of using a "sceptre" instead of a towel?

This is truly sickening when this happens!!!!!!

PREACH IT

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

You almost have it right. I am not simply accountable to God, I am also accountable to God's sheep, whom I serve. I am not a King, Lord or anything of that nature. I am a SERVANT! Don't people understand that simple, biblical and Jesus demonstrated concept?

Who do some men of God think they are by their demanding, conscripting and commandeering of funds? I wonder how Jesus feels when these men of God resort to their own methods of using a "sceptre" instead of a towel?

This is truly sickening when this happens!!!!!!

I'm only trying to state what I believe the Bible teaches.

1) the tithes go to the ministry (not just the pastor)

2) ministers of the word are accountable to God

Whether or not the minister is demanding and commandeering of funds doesn't change what the Bible teaches on giving to the ministry. There are hirelings, there are wolves in sheep's clothing, there are those that corrupt the word of God, there are those who's God is their belly....God will deal with them and judge them.

I don't believe I'm accountable to my pastor with the money God allows me to have. I'm accountable to God. I'm His steward. If I'm wrong (almost right!) show me from the scriptures.

Why do you think you should receive a salary? Is that teaching in the Bible? Where do the rest of the tithes go?

[Steve Epley]

Alter Ego I like you.

[Jehoram]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Alter Ego I like you.

And I love and respect you Elder.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Pastor is not a priest? If I don't trust my pastor (church leadership) I will find another church. My soul I entrust to the Lord, leadership of the local body I trust to the church leadership.

AM's point was the spiritual aspect of getting a soul ready for Heaven. I'm sure you knew that.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

See there we agree on something.

I actually fell out of my chair!!!!!!



BROTHER EPLEY AGREED WITH ME!

[SDG]

This teaching that tithing goes exclusively to the ministry ... as defined by the preacher man/Levite is ANTI-BIBLICAL.

Something to ponder about the biblical purposes of the tithe

http://www.geocities.com/hotsprings/3658/tithing.html

What was the purpose of tithing in the Old Testament?

There were four tithes in the Old Testament.

1. The people paid a general tithe to the Levites
“I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the Tent of Meeting” (Numbers 18:21).

All the tribes of Israel, except the Levites, had a designated geographical area as their “inheritance”. But the Levites — in return for their work within the nation — received income tax of 10% from the rest of the population.


The Levites functioned as:
• the Health Inspectors,
• the Police,
• the Justice Department, and
• the Education Department.
To put it simply, the Levites were the Public Service in Israel, and they were supported by a system of income tax called “tithes”.


2. The Levites paid a tithe of the general tithe to the priests
The Lord said to Moses, “Speak to the Levites and say to them: ‘When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the Lord’s offering…to Aaron the priest…’” (Numbers 18:25-31).

All the priests were Levites, but not all Levites were priests. The priestly caste were descended from Aaron and they had specific responsibilities related to the Temple worship.


The second tithe guaranteed the financial security of the priests, and thereby protected the Temple system.

3. The people kept a tithe to pay for their annual pilgrimage to Jerusalem

Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the Lord your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the Lord your God always.

But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the Lord your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the Lord will choose to put his Name is so far away), then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the Lord your God will choose.
Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice (Deuteronomy 14:22-26).

The people of Israel were required to assemble three times a year at Jerusalem (as the place chosen by the Lord) for the major feasts.


This was meant to be a time of rejoicing and the Lord ensured that everybody had sufficient resources available to enable them to fully enter into the rejoicing by commanding that they set aside 10% of their annual income for that purpose.


Notice the next verse (27), “And do not neglect the Levites…” This was a reference to the first tithe. In other words, the third tithe — for the annual feasts — was not to be confused with the separate and distinct general tithe for the Levites.


4. The people paid a tithe for the poor, the orphans and the widows

At the end of every third year you shall bring out all the tithe of your produce in that year, and shall deposit it in your town. And the Levite, because he has no portion or inheritance among you, and the alien, the orphan and the widow who are in your town, shall come and eat and be satisfied, in order that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do (Deuteronomy 14:28-29).

This tithe went to the poor, the widows and the orphans. In Australia that is called “Social Security”. It was payable once every three years, which equals one-third of a tenth annually.


These tithes were not ‘gifts’, they were taxes. The total tithes paid by the Israelites were 23.3% of their total income, about the same as what the average Australian pays today in income tax.



Tax to whom tax is due…
Render to all what is due to them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour (Romans 13:7).
As we move into the New Testament, we find that nothing has changed. We still pay taxes to finance the Public Service and the Social Security system.

Bring the whole tithe…
“Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven, and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows” (Malachi 3:10).
Here we have the tithing teachers’ favourite verse in the whole Bible. On this verse they hang most of their doctrine. But if we take a close look at the verse, we will find something very interesting.


Remember that there were four tithes in Israel under the Old Covenant. Which one is referred to here?

And the priest, the son of Aaron, shall be with the Levites when the Levites receive tithes, and the Levites shall bring up the tenth of the tithes to the house of our God, to the chambers of the storehouse (Nehemiah 10:38).
[ Note: The word ‘storehouse’ is translated as ‘treasure house’ in the KJV. The Hebrew is the same in both Nehemiah and Malachi, outsair, meaning a treasure or a store house. ]

Which of the four tithes is in view in Malachi?
The tithe payable by the Levites, not the tithes payable by the people. Malachi is not rebuking the people, he is rebuking the Levites.
When our modern day tithing teachers point this verse at the people, they are really pointing at themselves — except that most of them are too ignorant to recognise the fact.

[SDG]

How many of the preachers taking the entire tithe .... are allocating some to the widows and orphans???

[Jehoram]

If we ignore it will it go away?

[Steve Epley]

Has anyone besides me noticed the ONLY worry seems if the preacher has too much NEVER if he has too little????????????????????????

Most pastors I have known have sacrificed for years and done without and their families did without and was glad to do it for the Kingdom and no one ever fusses about the suits-shirts-dresses they bought at Goodwill, the retread tires on their cars, the fund raising their wives did. The jobs these pastors held down while trying to build a church. The puttting in of their last nickle to make sure a church bill was paid or an evangelist-missionary got a decent offering. How their car became the church bus. Some lived in the church building itself for a season.

But let the same man who laboured and struggled to bring a church to where it is financially strong-nice sanctuary-etc. And the man start to enjoy some of the fruit of his labour and he is a money hungry preacher looking out for number one. NOT trying to pat my self on the back but I have paid saints' rent-utility bills-car payments-paid for their children to go to youth camps. I don't know any saints that have done the same for other saints except in very rare cases.
But I am suppose to feel crooked or not a good steward if I buy a suit off the rack or my wife buys a new dress that really wasn't on sale, or my house is a decent home to live in? My car doors stay closed without baling wire?
I did not take the oath of poverty though I am willing to live on what God gives me no matter how less it is without complaint I have proved that to God and myself. But I also am going to be thankful and enjoy the good times God has let come my way. Remember ONE message or ONE church problem can change everything overnight.