1000 year reign

[Scott Hutchinson]

Here is an article ,some might find of interest.This is from historical sources.
http://scionofzion.com/ehmt.htm

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

If you were right, and Jesus bound the devil to spoil him, then the devil should not be able to do anything now! You claim BINDING THE DEVIL renders the devil absolutely unable to do anything, since that is what you claim Rev 20 means. But yet we clearly read Jesus spoiled the devil, and from Christ's own mouth we know you cannot do that until you first BIND HIM. If the devil can do things TODAY, after Jesus bound him on the cross, what makes you think the devil can do NOTHING according to Rev 20's BINDING?

Can you respond?

1) Does Col 2 not say the devil is spoiled?

2) Did Jesus not say you cannot spoil anyone until your first BIND THEM?

Brother Blume,
On point two are you saying, in effect, that it is like a thief that binds the owner while he does his work? After the work is accomplished the owner is free, yet he doesn't possess all that he had before? He doesn't own what he once owned before?

Is this why Satan tempted Jesus in the Wilderness? Was he in fact "checking out" this new thing that God was doing - putting His Spirit in human flesh? Wondering how he would contend with this new thing taking place?

We say that Satan didn't know who Jesus was, but in the verses before the temptation you find Jesus being baptized and God speaking, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

If Satan could tell Eve, in the garden, exactly what the rules of the Garden were concerning the tree of life (some say he changed or twisted what God said, but he if fact said the same thing in his own words, so that doesn't fly) and if he could know man enough to tell God that Job would curse Him if he touched his flesh, then He knew who God was at the time of temptation.

So, I am getting that you are saying that Satan has power in this life, in our lives if we allow it, BUT "greater is He that is in you, then he that is in the world."

Correct?

Isn't it like the old Indian story about the two dogs fighting? The Indian was asked, "Which dog will win?" He responded, "The one I say sick 'em to." I think that's how the story went. lol

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Yes but the question AT HAND is does the Bible teach there will be a 1000 year reign of Christ and the Saints on Earth.

Amazingly the answer is right before us in scripture!

1: And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2: And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3: And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

There it is. To believe or reject.

No, there it is to understood properly or not. If it is a 1000 years after the church age, then it conflicts with other scriptures. But if it represents the church age, then there is no conflict with other scriptures.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Good point Micheal Elder Blume has a prewritten page ready I promise you. He might not be correct but he is prepared.

Brother nothing I presented here was prewritten. It was written on the spot in direct repsonse to Michael.

[mfblume]

Bump for Michael, the second time.

Originally Posted by mfblume

BIBLICAL CONTRADICTIONS AGAINST a 1000 YEAR MILLENNIUM AFTER THE CHURCH AGE.

1) 1000 year millennial teaching says that Christ BEGINS ruling over nations after He returns and resurrects the saints. BUT THE BIBLE SAYS THE END COMES when He comes in resurrection for the saints, and He CEASES to rule. He rules from the time He is seated on the right hand of God UNTIL all enemies are put under his feet WHEN HE RETURNS IN RESURRECTION. 1 Cor 15:23-26

2) 1000 year millennialism teaches satan is bound at the start of the millennium, after Jesus comes again, BUT THE BIBLE TEACHES JESUS SPOILED THE DEVIL ALREADY AT THE CROSS AND ALSO SAID YOU CANNOT SPOIL ONE UNTIL YOU FIRST BIND ONE.

3) 1000 year millennialism teaches Israel shall come to God OUTSIDE THE CHURCH, becuse the Churcch has already been raptured. This demands another plan of salvation for Israel. Paul said any other way of salvation is another gospel, and involves a curse. It is ACTS 2:38 from here on til the white throne judgment.

4) Millennialism teaches death occurs during the thousand years after Jesus comes. Paul plainly taught in 1 Cor 15 that when Christ comes, the end then occurs. And Death is destroyed. So there can be no deaths after Christ's coming.

5) Millennialism teaches the devil is bound so as to not influence the world in any manner at all, but Rev 20 states that he is bound to deceive the nations no more. And when you KEEP READING, and NOT STOP AT VERSE 3, you read THE NATURE OF THAT DECEPTION:



It is DECEPTION SOLELY TO GATHER THE NATIONS AGAINST THE CHURCH.


Partial preterism teaches THIS GATHERING AGAINST THE CHURCH is the last thing to occur before the rapture, when we are taken to the great white throne judgment. This is what we believe is the trouble the church will face.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Brother Blume,
On point two are you saying, in effect, that it is like a thief that binds the owner while he does his work? After the work is accomplished the owner is free, yet he doesn't possess all that he had before? He doesn't own what he once owned before?

Not actually. That may be a good point, but I was trying to say that during the bondage itself, there may be more room to operate than what people assume when they think of bondage. For example there are degrees of security in varying prisons. Maximum security disallows freedoms MOSTLY. Minimum security alloows far more freedoms than maximum. If we were to simply say PRISON, some people would think NO FREEDOMS, though, and be mistaken. Same with binding. People for some reason ASSUME that binding the devils means NO power is left to the devil.

But I have proved that satan was bound TO AN EXTENT at the cross. Col 2 says he was spoiled, and Jesus said that cannot occur unless someone first BINDS HIM. So the devil was bound already, whether people want to accept that or not. Otherwise HE WAS NOT SPOILED.

So I am speaking about the actual state of bondage.

Is this why Satan tempted Jesus in the Wilderness? Was he in fact "checking out" this new thing that God was doing - putting His Spirit in human flesh? Wondering how he would contend with this new thing taking place?

We say that Satan didn't know who Jesus was, but in the verses before the temptation you find Jesus being baptized and God speaking, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

If Satan could tell Eve, in the garden, exactly what the rules of the Garden were concerning the tree of life (some say he changed or twisted what God said, but he if fact said the same thing in his own words, so that doesn't fly) and if he could know man enough to tell God that Job would curse Him if he touched his flesh, then He knew who God was at the time of temptation.

So, I am getting that you are saying that Satan has power in this life, in our lives if we allow it, BUT "greater is He that is in you, then he that is in the world."

Correct?

Yes, and I am saying he was already bound, but not to the extent that he cannot do anything. He was only bound in certain areas. Rev 20 is the same thing. I believe Rev 20 and Christ's words about binding the strong BOTH REFER TO THE CROSS.

It all surrounds the cross!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Not actually. That may be a good point, but I was trying to say that during the bondage itself, there may be more room to operate than what people assume when they think of bondage. For example there are degrees of security in varying prisons. Maximum security disallows freedoms MOSTLY. Minimum security alloows far more freedoms than maximum. If we were to simply say PRISON, some people would think NO FREEDOMS, though, and be mistaken. Same with binding. People for some reason ASSUME that binding the devils means NO power is left to the devil.

But I have proved that satan was bound TO AN EXTENT at the cross. Col 2 says he was spoiled, and Jesus said that cannot occur unless someone first BINDS HIM. So the devil was bound already, whether people want to accept that or not. Otherwise HE WAS NOT SPOILED.

So I am speaking about the actual state of bondage.



Yes, and I am saying he was already bound, but not to the extent that he cannot do anything. He was only bound in certain areas. Rev 20 is the same thing. I believe Rev 20 and Christ's words about binding the strong BOTH REFER TO THE CROSS.

It all surrounds the cross!

Thank you for your response. I can't quite get the binding idea in my mind. Especially when I read the Book of Job. The Devil had boundaries he had to keep and needed permission from God to take any type of action. So, I see him having boundaries from all time, even in the Garden.

3: And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

This scripture which MTD posted reflects - a bottomless pit, shut up and sealed. That sounds like a total binding.

Could you go a little further in your thinking on this? Thanks!

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Yes but the question AT HAND is does the Bible teach there will be a 1000 year reign of Christ and the Saints on Earth.

Amazingly the answer is right before us in scripture!

1: And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2: And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3: And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

There it is. To believe or reject.

Simple enough I think. All of these wild turns make me feel like I am on a roller coaster. I ask myself what did they say?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Simple enough I think. All of these wild turns make me feel like I am on a roller coaster. I ask myself what did they say?

My only confusion with the above scripture is in verse 6.

6: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

It says that we "SHALL BE" Priests. I'm reading, in Revelation 1:5-6 that he loved us, washed us from our sins in his own blood and has made us kings and priests unto God.

Rev 1:6 implies it has already happened and Rev 20:6 speaks in a future tense.

How do those two scriptures work together?

[Michael The Disciple]

Michael Blume said:

But I have proved that satan was bound TO AN EXTENT at the cross.

Me:

Ok no one is against THAT. Yes the devil is bound today to a certain extent. I think my posts agree with that.

This "binding" issue is just a part of the entire doctrine of 1000 year reign. It should not be seen as the WHOLE ISSUE.

When satan is in the pit he is DOING NOTHING. Its when he comes out THEN he goes out to do his work.

Jesus Christ has power over all things in Heaven and on Earth right now. But that does not mean he is currently exercising that power over the nations. It seems in this life his focus is on building up the CHURCH AS HIS KINGDOM. As his holy nation.

He can and does do things in the Earth as he sees fit. He can cause nations to be blessed or he can cast lightning bolts of judgment upon them.

Yet the Apostle Paul who probably knew the plan of God better than we do today still said satan was the god of this world.

4: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Cor. 4:4

To those who may think Jesus is right now at this present reigning over the nations PLEASE CONSIDER THIS.

15: And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16: And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17: Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18: And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Rev. 11:15-18

Has the seventh angel sounded? When it sounds THEN the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of our Lord!

THEN according to verse 17 he TAKES TO HIM HIS POWER AND REIGNS.

If he is already reigning why will he take to him his power and reign?

Easy answer. Because the whole Church age is a FIRSTFRUITS experience of things that are only realized TO A CERTAIN EXTENT.

When the seventh Angel sounds there will be a dramatic REALIZATION of the prophetic scriptures.

So again there is the spiritual reality of the Kingdom of God today as his Church. In his Church we are ruling and reigning with him as far as performing his will and teaching truth.

Yet at his coming (seventh trumpet) there will come a fullblown manifestation of the things we now teach and believe are true.

18: For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19: For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20: For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21: Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22: For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23: And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24: For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25: But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Verse 23 puts this manifestation of the sons of God to deliver the groaning creation in context. AT THE REDEMPTION OF OUR BODIES.......THE SECOND COMING.

Then we will deliver groaning creation. It will be set free also into the glorious liberty of the sons of God!

If there is no kingdom on this Earth from the time of the adoption of our bodies WHAT GROANING CREATION will we set free?

Paul makes this sound glorious! Some today make us feel like we believe a childs fairy tale when we teach it.