I'm being bewitched.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Are you suggesting it's psychosomatic?

I pretty much came right out and said it, only without using those fancy big-city words.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I pretty much came right out and said it, only without using those fancy big-city words.

It's kind of like speaking with tongues, once you've experienced dealing with devils, no one can tell you they aren't real and actively deceiving and afflicting folks any which way they can now, just like they did then.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

It's kind of like speaking with tongues, once you've experienced dealing with devils, no one can tell you they aren't real and actively deceiving and afflicting folks any which way they can now, just like they did then.

I discern such a decepticon hovered above your head because you are "responding" to something you've just made up and not to anything I said.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I discern such a decepticon hovered above your head because you are "responding" to something you've just made up and not to anything I said.

So you believe devils exist but not that humans have any influence with them? (just trying to figure out where you're coming from, Pel.)

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by pelathais

That's what I said, sort of. If you believe it works, then it may "work" for you (or on you).

Interesting. I seriously disagree....but, that's ok.

Originally Posted by pelathais

That's not what I said. That's just more stuff that you have made up.

Well, not exactly made up. It follows from the argument that you are presenting in the way that I'm understanding it.

Are you saying that these things exist, but have no interaction with humans at all? That they exist, but do not in any way interfere with natural surroundings? Or, are you saying that they do exist, and do interact, but only as allowed to by the belief of the people impacted? Or, in other words, the belief of the people involved is the only means by which these things can influence the natural realm. Is this closer to what you're saying?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

So you believe devils exist but not that humans have any influence with them? (just trying to figure out where you're coming from, Pel.)

The discussion was about being "bewitched" and whether or not a particular poster might be suffering from such a malady.

My assertion was that no other human being could possibly affect their life through "incantations" or any other "ritual" that is typically associated with "witchcraft" unless they themselves worried too much over it.

The same adversary could affect their life through some sort of direct intervention or harassment. I suppose I might add "gossip" and "tale bearing" at this point as well, though I hadn't mentioned it earlier. But these things should be counted as among the types of "direct intervention" and "harassment" that I mentioned earlier.

In any event, someone just sitting at home and rocking back and forth saying something like, "I hope Mizzie gets a pimple... I hope Mizzie gets a pimple..." (or whatever) will not affect your complexion one bit. Even if they said, "I hope Beelzebub gives Mizzie that pimple..." your usual cleansing regime should still suffice.

However, since there is a very strong linkage between the mind and the body ("psycho" = mind, and "soma" = body), if you were to stress too much about it, you might just end up with a pimple with no "devils" or demons involved. Just you, your mind and your knowledge that someone "out there" wants to ruin your photo on this year's Christmas card.

As far as "human influence" with "the devil" or "evil spirits" - nah. Try this. Send $50 to a witch doctor in Haiti and have them do whatever to "hex" me. Do this because I aggravate you. Let me know and we'll monitor the results.

In the meantime consider the words of Isaiah to the repentant and chastened nation of Israel:

Isaiah 54:10-17

"Great shall be the peace of thy children..." "No weapon formed against thee shall prosper..."

These promises are for the people of God today as well. See for example John 10:28-30; Romans 8:1, Romans 8:28-39. In Ephesians 6, when Paul describes "spiritual warfare" in terms analogous to human warfare, just how does he tell us to "fight?" He tells us to first make certain that we have "THE LORD'S" armor (and not our own - Ephesians 6:13). He then tells us to ... "STAND."

That's it. Wear God's own armor and just stand there.

I believe in the unfailing kindness of God and I am willing to put all of my confidence in Him - no matter what the "witches" and others who "peep and mutter" might say against me. Their words are meaningless. They may as well as never have spoken. Such is my confidence in my God.

The only "power" that those folks can ever have is the power that frightened people allow them to have over their lives. I refuse to be frightened.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by pelathais

...In the meantime consider the words of Isaiah to the repentant and chastened nation of Israel:

Isaiah 54:10-17

"Great shall be the peace of thy children..." "No weapon formed against thee shall prosper..."

These promises are for the people of God today as well. See for example John 10:28-30; Romans 8:1, Romans 8:28-39. In Ephesians 6, when Paul describes "spiritual warfare" in terms analogous to human warfare, just how does he tell us to "fight?" He tells us to first make certain that we have "THE LORD'S" armor (and not our own - Ephesians 6:13). He then tells us to ... "STAND."

That's it. Wear God's own armor and just stand there.

I believe in the unfailing kindness of God and I am willing to put all of my confidence in Him - no matter what the "witches" and others who "peep and mutter" might say against me. Their words are meaningless. They may as well as never have spoken. Such is my confidence in my God.

The only "power" that those folks can ever have is the power that frightened people allow them to have over their lives. I refuse to be frightened.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Interesting. I seriously disagree....but, that's ok.




Well, not exactly made up. It follows from the argument that you are presenting in the way that I'm understanding it.

Are you saying that these things exist, but have no interaction with humans at all? That they exist, but do not in any way interfere with natural surroundings? Or, are you saying that they do exist, and do interact, but only as allowed to by the belief of the people impacted? Or, in other words, the belief of the people involved is the only means by which these things can influence the natural realm. Is this closer to what you're saying?

In ancient cultures all over the world there existed something called "the demon hole." This was a crack, fissure or even a man made "hole in the ground" through which it was believed the "spirits of the dead" or whatever locally popular spirits would rise up out of the ground. The Oracle at Delphi in Greece has this sort of feature and even the "Cliff Palace" at Mesa Verde in Colorado has one.

The witch at Endor ("fountain of dwelling") in 1 Samuel 28, practiced this same ancient and world-wide practice of "conjuring." Now, some folks will argue that Samuel really did rise up from the ground, others will argue that it was the devil or a demon disguised as Samuel who arose... whatever.

The people got what they were looking for. Saul and the witch of Endor believed in a "power" here and they saw the result...

More correctly, the "witch" saw the result. Saul didn't see anything and relied entirely upon the witch's accounts and descriptions. In the end, whether it was a demon or if it was really Samuel - or even if it was just the witch jerking ol' Saul around, Saul suffered because he gave power to this "conjuring."

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Aquila, maybe either one of you can show me where I accused her of anything.

Or maybe she just read you claiming I accused her of something and didn't bother to think for herself.

Either way I don't have to do anything. I didn't accuse anyone of anything. It's funny she was quoting you and not me when she made that statement

Prax, you and I both know you didn't really accuse her of anything. That's a true fact.

However, this isn't a topical thread. I'm trusting that she's asking an honest question about something troubling her. While you didn't accuse her of anything, your words could be taken as a round about way of saying, "This girl might just be delusional." Communication is more than just the words we use. Bundled up in there are the impressions we might give others.

It's like two friends standing in church and one says, "I think I just saw an angel." Then the second friend says, "Well, some people think they see a lot of things, but it's just the pizza they ate late the night before." The second brother technically didn't "accuse" the brother who claims to have seen an angel of just "seeing things". But the brother who believes he may have just seen an angel might feel he did... or maybe he did but in a reserved way. You'd have to ask that brother. What would you think? If I said to that second brother, "Hey, don't accuse him of just seeing things." He'd say, "Hey, I didn't accuse anyone of anything.", and laugh. He'd be right. But we'd all know he did.

I think your statement might have been taken that way when you were actually just trying to offer an analytical detail to the conversation.

Love and appreciate you bro.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I discern such a decepticon hovered above your head because you are "responding" to something you've just made up and not to anything I said.

Pel, I think there's a disconnect in communication. When someone is bewitched, a spirit is set loose in their lives by one who traffics in spirits and the forces of the darkness. There isn't a "mystic energy" that goes forth to accomplish a purpose that only effects those who believe in it... spirits are behind real "spells" and "curses". Just like the Holy Ghost is active behind the Christian's prayers.