It has everything to do with how they were raised. If you have 20 men in your church who don't work, you need to look at mom and dad. These men are a product of their environment. I have a 15 year boy who took his first job this summer. The contractor he worked for loved him - Thought he had the best attitude and work ethics he had ever seen in a teenager. The contractor readily acknowledged that he (my son) is who he is because of the disciplined, hard-working mom and dad that my son has!
Mom and dad had more to do with the end results in these 20 men than we would want to admit.
I tell woman who complain about how men act that if they want men to act differently, they have to start raising boys differently!!
Individual counseling with a passion to see a difference in each of the lives so these 20 men would have gone a lot further with better results. I would much rather have had the occasion to talk and cousel with each of the individuals individually than to openly rebuke them all at once.
You never know, God might be trying to teach you something about this lazy untoward generation in which you are trying to build churches out of.
And, bythe way, I don't like laziness in anyone. Some of the hardest working people I know are my my wife, her mother, my mother, my grandmothers. The men work equally as as hard.
I don't have twenty men who don't work, I had a group of twenty-somethings. I was referring to their age.
But let's make a deal, you pastor your group, and I'll pastor the ones God allows me to in the way He wants me to.
His Word says that those who don't provide are worse than unbelievers. The church body needs to know I won't tolerate that nonsense.
Get a job! I have no sympathy for someone who can work, but won't.
Oh my God!! Ding! Ding! Ding! I believe the reason some men are abusive has a lot to do with the way the are treated from the pulpit when they get to church. I have heard preachers talk to saints in a manner that society as a whole would never accept under any circumstance. I don't understand why some of our men turn into such meanies when they get in the pulpit...but they do!
Thank you. There were three of them and that's exactly what I did.
From that point on I announced that only the voting membership were invited to our business meetings. Two of the three went out and got jobs, the other one moved away.
Sometimes a rebuke would almost be considered encouragement. I have a friend who doesn't put up with much foolishness from people and is quick to rebuke (or encourage) and I am amazed that most of these people will end up looking up to him. I don't know if it is because they are trying to please their "abuser" or if they really get the message.
It has everything to do with how they were raised. If you have 20 men in your church who don't work, you need to look at mom and dad. These men are a product of their environment. I have a 15 year boy who took his first job this summer. The contractor he worked for loved him - Thought he had the best attitude and work ethics he had ever seen in a teenager. The contractor readily acknowledged that he (my son) is who he is because of the disciplined, hard-working mom and dad that my son has!
Mom and dad had more to do with the end results in these 20 men than we would want to admit.
I tell woman who complain about how men act that if they want men to act differently, they have to start raising boys differently!!
Individual counseling with a passion to see a difference in each of the lives so these 20 men would have gone a lot further with better results. I would much rather have had the occasion to talk and cousel with each of the individuals individually than to openly rebuke them all at once.
You never know, God might be trying to teach you something about this lazy untoward generation in which you are trying to build churches out of.
And, bythe way, I don't like laziness in anyone. Some of the hardest working people I know are my my wife, her mother, my mother, my grandmothers. The men work equally as as hard.
While I agree with your post for the most part, that's not the problem in all cases. I know mom's and dad's who do all they can to teach their children, but they have this black sheep, so to speak, who won't do anything and have no ethics. That isn't reflective on the parents, but on the child who never put forth any effort to be productive.
On the flip side, I have seen parents who are lazy, scum of the earth people who have a child that refuses to be like mom and dad and make something of themselves.
My family consists of a mom who raised me with work ethics, but a dad who, thankfully didn't live with us most of our lives, was on welfare more than he held a job and never paid child support. However, he remarried and had 5 more children with his just as lazy as he is wife, but I'm happy to say that all 5 of those kids, who are know grown, all have jobs and are productive people. Three of the five have educational degrees (2 Bachelor, 1 Masters).
I can't believe that for the parents they had in common, there isn't a one of them who wants to be that way. I'm proud of my family, and thankful that they don't want to carry on the lazy family tradition.
Anyway, just wanted you to know that while I believe your post might be the norm, thankfully, there are exceptions.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Thank you. There were three of them and that's exactly what I did.
From that point on I announced that only the voting membership were invited to our business meetings. Two of the three went out and got jobs, the other one moved away.
Sometimes a rebuke would almost be considered encouragement. I have a friend who doesn't put up with much foolishness from people and is quick to rebuke (or encourage) and I am amazed that most of these people will end up looking up to him. I don't know if it is because they are trying to please their "abuser" or if they really get the message.
:sshhh
I think I have only openly rebuked from the pulpit one time other than the one I mentioned. I don't make it a habit, but I am not afraid to call things to order.
They used to call that leadership, now they call it abuse. Go figure.
No offense, but I don't give a flyin' fajita what you think I should or should not do in the church.
As a pastor, there are times when public rebuke is an absolute necessity. Especially when young, purposefully-unemployed men want to dictate the direction of the church PUBLICLY in business meetings or planning sessions.
I will tell them to keep silent because they are IN SIN!!!!! So, you see, there is a difference in our understanding here. You apparently think lazy, selfish, abusers should have a voice in the church.
I don't.
What we need are some real men who know how to treat a woman. Maybe then these women wouldn't need to fill positions they were never meant to fill. Some of these women got raw deals.
you didn't mention it was in a business meeting. we will have to agree to disagree on this one. The church should not be a place of offense. We have fun and joke, but that's different. I personally would take the young man into a private location and speak to him.
I think I have only openly rebuked from the pulpit one time other than the one I mentioned. I don't make it a habit, but I am not afraid to call things to order.
They used to call that leadership, now they call it abuse. Go figure.
I don't think calling things to order would be considered a rebuke.
I think a rebuke would be to openly aim comments at an individual's sin in order to shame them into changing or leaving the church for that matter.
I think the rebuke we are talking about would almost be considered manipulation.
I think I have only openly rebuked from the pulpit one time other than the one I mentioned. I don't make it a habit, but I am not afraid to call things to order.
They used to call that leadership, now they call it abuse. Go figure.
At the church I met you at when you preached there, the pastor had to interrupt service to shut a woman up who was trying to tell the pastor what to do in regard to issues he was speaking about to us. She was a visitor, but apparently knew better than he did on what he should do and how he should do it.....LOL!
He finally told her in so many words to shut up cause she didn't know what she was talking about!
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Oh my God!! Ding! Ding! Ding! I believe the reason some men are abusive has a lot to do with the way the are treated from the pulpit when they get to church. I have heard preachers talk to saints in a manner that society as a whole would never accept under any circumstance. I don't understand why some of our men turn into such meanies when they get in the pulpit...but they do!
Amen Sister, pp got defensive by my comments. The church will always assume the spirit of the pastor. Who he is they will become too.
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