Can a District trump TV?

[Kansas Preacher]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

Good answer!

I can agree with the highlighted above! I have a feeling that there are those that are planning on leaving regardless, but want to vote as a parting shot, per se!

Thank you. Now, having brought you to agree with me, I just thought I'd let you know I'm planning to leave either way.





















Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

Thank you. Now, having brought you to agree with me, I just thought I'd let you know I'm planning to leave either way.




Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

Brother Dan,

You should not be surprised by this. It is no new revelation. I said the same thing last year during this discussion. For me, television is THE line that I simply will not cross.

I will not criticize those who choose to stay. I will not become a UPC-basher. I will just quietly allow my license to lapse, become an independent, and keep preaching what I have always preached.

I hope those who stay in will offer me the same courtesy, by the way. I hope they won't scream, "See? He didn't get his way, so he's taking his toys and going home." I've heard that until I'm about to ... well, never mind.

I'm trying to keep a sweet spirit.

KP,
If you feel that strong about the tv issue, then you should leave if it passes.
I'm not UPC. I've gone to UPC churches over the years but tv was not an issue there. The whole issue seems kinda silly to me because so many people in UPC churches (pastors included) have tv's. The "rule" is openly ignored. In my opinion (which carries no weight because I'm an outsider to the UPC) the whole tv thing should be left to the individual believer's conscience and any mention of it should be removed from the Manual.

[Kansas Preacher]

Originally Posted by Sam

KP,
If you feel that strong about the tv issue, then you should leave if it passes.
I'm not UPC. I've gone to UPC churches over the years but tv was not an issue there. The whole issue seems kinda silly to me because so many people in UPC churches (pastors included) have tv's. The "rule" is openly ignored. In my opinion (which carries no weight because I'm an outsider to the UPC) the whole tv thing should be left to the individual believer's conscience and any mention of it should be removed from the Manual.

I understand that, to many, "TV is not an issue." However, that is not the case with me. To my knowledge, not one member of my church has a television. I do not have one, and have not had one for more than 35 years. My dad got rid of ours when I was 12 years old (I'm 47 now).

For the most part, the Apostolic churches in Kansas stand together in our opposition of television. It has been -- and continues to be -- an issue for us.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

I understand that, to many, "TV is not an issue." However, that is not the case with me. To my knowledge, not one member of my church has a television. I do not have one, and have not had one for more than 35 years. My dad got rid of ours when I was 12 years old (I'm 47 now).

For the most part, the Apostolic churches in Kansas stand together in our opposition of television. It has been -- and continues to be -- an issue for us.

KP,
I hope you did not take that as a putdown from me.
I have been part of a UPC in
Racine, WI (1955/1956)
St. Paul, MN (1956/1957)
Cincinnati, OH (1957-1964)
also an ALJC church in Ohio from 1964-1978 which is now a UPC church.
TV was not an issue in any of these churches.
In one of them, our pastor was the Dist. Supt. and he had a tv in both of his homes.
I am speaking from a limited standpoint from a limited geographical area.

What I was trying to say was that if you feel that strong about tv, as a matter of principle, you would have to withdraw support from an organization that openly endorsed it. I was not condemning you for an action like that.

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

I understand that, to many, "TV is not an issue." However, that is not the case with me. To my knowledge, not one member of my church has a television. I do not have one, and have not had one for more than 35 years. My dad got rid of ours when I was 12 years old (I'm 47 now).

For the most part, the Apostolic churches in Kansas stand together in our opposition of television. It has been -- and continues to be -- an issue for us.

For the record again, I did not start this thread to "lure" you into a trap of bashing you for your opinion.

I simply wonder if the conservative districts could satisfy the felt needs of the ones who don't want tv on any level by using a district by-law like the one OK has.

I was also wondering if Oklahoma district would have to change their manual by removing the prohibition against tv that has been in place for decades...

With that said, I am not confortable with the direct dialog that seems to lean toward criticism of you on this thread and wanted you to know that. I really appreciate your honest answers here and the interaction you have given to this subject.

Now back on topic, Has anyone else inquired with district officials or some parlimentarian to find out if a district can trump a national allowance on TV?

Second, How do you think the Oklahoma district will go about removing its said prohibition if that is in fact the case...

[Kansas Preacher]

Originally Posted by Sam

KP,
I hope you did not take that as a putdown from me.
I have been part of a UPC in
Racine, WI (1955/1956)
St. Paul, MN (1956/1957)
Cincinnati, OH (1957-1964)
also an ALJC church in Ohio from 1964-1978 which is now a UPC church.
TV was not an issue in any of these churches.
In one of them, our pastor was the Dist. Supt. and he had a tv in both of his homes.
I am speaking from a limited standpoint from a limited geographical area.

What I was trying to say was that if you feel that strong about tv, as a matter of principle, you would have to withdraw support from an organization that openly endorsed it. I was not condemning you for an action like that.

I did not take your comments as "condemnation" OR as a "slam" against me. I understood perfectly what you were saying. I was just trying to explain that, from my vantage point, it has been -- and continues to be -- an "issue."

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

I did not take your comments as "condemnation" OR as a "slam" against me. I understood perfectly what you were saying. I was just trying to explain that, from my vantage point, it has been -- and continues to be -- an "issue."

and, Brother, if it is an issue with you,
you have to go with your convictions.

Originally Posted by triumphant1

For the record again, I did not start this thread to "lure" you into a trap of bashing you for your opinion.

I simply wonder if the conservative districts could satisfy the felt needs of the ones who don't want tv on any level by using a district by-law like the one OK has.

I was also wondering if Oklahoma district would have to change their manual by removing the prohibition against tv that has been in place for decades...

With that said, I am not confortable with the direct dialog that seems to lean toward criticism of you on this thread and wanted you to know that. I really appreciate your honest answers here and the interaction you have given to this subject.

Now back on topic, Has anyone else inquired with district officials or some parlimentarian to find out if a district can trump a national allowance on TV?

Second, How do you think the Oklahoma district will go about removing its said prohibition if that is in fact the case...

Triumphant1,

I appreciate your spirit pertaining to this thread. Kansas Preacher is a fine man in whom I have much confidence. Perhaps we wouldn't agree on everything but we agree overwhelmingly on most things.

I think it would be a mistake for someone of his caliber to leave the organization for any reason: we need men of conviction such as his.

Again, thank you.

Besides, I've wondered if individual Districts would 'trump' votes such as that myself. oloroid

[triumphant1]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Triumphant1,

I appreciate your spirit pertaining to this thread. Kansas Preacher is a fine man in whom I have much confidence. Perhaps we wouldn't agree on everything but we agree overwhelmingly on most things.

I think it would be a mistake for someone of his caliber to leave the organization for any reason: we need men of conviction such as his.

Again, thank you.

Besides, I've wondered if individual Districts would 'trump' votes such as that myself. oloroid

Thank you...

It would seem that a district prohibition would be a better way to work this thing out but I do understand the "final straw" feelings of KP...

You have some level of influence and connection across the national scene...even here in OK...if you are comfortable you should try to hunt this dog to see if there is a coon in this tree....and then report back.

Especially interesting to me is can the Ok Dist prohibition stand and is that the reason it is in the district manual to begin with? Did the District Conference back then see that a district prohibition would keep TV out of OK even if KP and MH persuaded the national vote to allow it?