Question for conservatives and ultracons

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by OnTheFritz

Well, of course - but I can't SAY that...

WHY NOT? I did

=)

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Chis, the wild one! lol Love you man!

LOL

Love you too bro!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Wouldn't they be even better off completely covering the ankles?

Probably... but some of our ladies had real nice ankles.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Pure of Heart!

oh that's right.... he really didn't mean it!

All the commandments and ordinances of the Lord? Like not wearing poly-knit clothing? That can't be the meaning.

The term "righteous" before God, that's important. But what is being "righteous"?

Pure of heart? That's also a good answer in my opinion... and I firmly believe that's part of it.

But I think Jesus meant something pretty down to earth here. The Greek word for "perfect" is "teleios". It is often translated "perfect", "man", or "full of age", "mature"; all in the sense of wanting nothing additional to complete us.

The Army put it this way, "Be All You Can Be".

But here's a secret most don't realize. You can't be all you can be unless you ditch the man made rules that shackle you from becoming who God made you to be. By obeying all the man made rules... you just become what men want you to be. And in that, you have your reward.

[Aquila]

[QUOTE=jaxfam6;758964][QUOTE=Aquila;758906]

i am not taking up all that space for that post =)

Aquila my friend I am very glad to hear that you are finding your way for yourself. KNOWING what you believe because you and God have a relationship where he can lead you and guide is much better than being self righteous just because others around you are that same way. God bless you and yours.

Thanks Jax. For some, living by religion's rules is easy because they don't have to think or pray about things. They just believe and do what is in the manual. However, for others this kind of religiosity stagnates and burns them out. I've learned that I didn't mature or grow in God until I ditched the man made rules and had to pray and think about things in light of Scripture, seeking answers... often on my own. Don't get me wrong, I make mistakes. It's often difficult trying to live for God according to the Spirit. Sometimes I feel like going back to the "mold" as I call it would be a lot easier. But there are times when me and Jesus sit and talk (He isn't UPCI by the way) and I wouldn't trade that for the world.

[Aquila]

Personally, this is the path I follow in my attempt to be "perfect" as my father in heaven is perfect...

I try to love God with all I am.

- I try not to have anything more important than him in my life.
- I try not to be materialistic.
- I give God reverence.
- I set time aside to worship him.

I try to love and treat others the way I'd want to be loved and treated.

- When my mom was alive I cherished her. Today I keep my pastor in the highest respect, even though we disagree sometime.
- I refuse to shed blood or speak evil of a brother slanderously as gossip (confession here, I like to jab at some folks online when debating, but I don't go about murdering anyone with my tongue offline. In fact, all of you - liberal or conservative are some of the finest folks in Pentecost.
- I'm faithful to my wife.
- I respect the property of others and I don't take what's not mine.
- I don't lie about people.
- And I try not to loose sight and become consumed with wanting what others might have. (I sincerely struggle here sometimes.)

Those are my spiritual objectives. Most of the time I do well and meet my objectives. But there have been times when I've broken every rule I've set out to keep at one point or another. I have faith that if I focus on those things and do my very best...the rest of it all will fall into place.

That's my path. I trust some of you have a different approach. Some of you might have a better approach. But I don't focus on the traditions of men so much anymore.

[GrowingPains]

Modesty and skirt/ankle length are not encouraged in most churches because of the Law. It's the pastor making that distinction for the community. We all have lines somewhere. Thong bikinis I'm sure aren't welcome at your house of worship. Some pastors abrogate the responsibility to make application of 1st truths in a 21st century world. Could it be our idealism is not realistic?

Regarding the interpretations of jewelry and hair -- those must be defended only with the Word, since it's the Word that many cite as their reason for believing these things as doctrines.

[GrowingPains]

[QUOTE=Aquila;759493][QUOTE=jaxfam6;758964]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Thanks Jax. For some, living by religion's rules is easy because they don't have to think or pray about things. They just believe and do what is in the manual. However, for others this kind of religiosity stagnates and burns them out. I've learned that I didn't mature or grow in God until I ditched the man made rules and had to pray and think about things in light of Scripture, seeking answers... often on my own. Don't get me wrong, I make mistakes. It's often difficult trying to live for God according to the Spirit. Sometimes I feel like going back to the "mold" as I call it would be a lot easier. But there are times when me and Jesus sit and talk (He isn't UPCI by the way) and I wouldn't trade that for the world.

Aquila. I appreciate your posts. Are you a pastor? Not all saints are the same. Some will never mature, but they will be saved. What that means is that some needs things spelled out, and others need space. Perhaps this brings more reason that the pastor should avoid, as much as possible, blanket theologies concerning distinctives, if he can just be more personal with the saints. We are all not the same... and each sheep needs to be guided accordingly. You're right, true sanctification happens when it isn't dictated. Pastors can help the congregation know what God likes and doesn't like through sound teaching, and then letting the congregation make the application. I've been accused of being an idealist, and maybe that's true.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Newman

In response to your initial post; isn't it possible that God's Church ministers to lots of different people? And people drawn to conservative churches need/appreciate conservative standards?

I appreciate them. Just like many, at various times, I've wondered what my true stance has been. I have found that after posting on these forums many have made me feel more appreciative toward those that uphold standards of dress. I didn't originally feel that way in the beginning of my posting tenure. But the more the issue is pushed and criticized, the more I appreciate those that desire to live a more simple lifestyle in many ways, especially in this fast, moving, changing day and age.

One thing I don't advocate is pushing a said standard on a person. We need to be patient and allow God to do the work, whatever it is He wants in a person's life in the way of consecration and personal conviction.

I do find it rather disingenuous of those that say they only found a true relationship when they stopped a more conforming lifestyle, as though those that follow a church standard have not found a true relationship with God. That may be true for THEM, but they certainly can't honestly speak for everyone else on that subject.

One thing I don't like is how society, in a large way, puts pressure on women to conform to cosmetics in order to feel accepted and appreciated. That, IMO, is just as bad as those that are opposed to a church standard.

If you look at all of the chemicals in hair dye and cosmetics - it's not even healthy. Just my two cents.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Personally, this is the path I follow in my attempt to be "perfect" as my father in heaven is perfect...

I try to love God with all I am.

- I try not to have anything more important than him in my life.
- I try not to be materialistic.
- I give God reverence.
- I set time aside to worship him.

I try to love and treat others the way I'd want to be loved and treated.

- When my mom was alive I cherished her. Today I keep my pastor in the highest respect, even though we disagree sometime.
- I refuse to shed blood or speak evil of a brother slanderously as gossip (confession here, I like to jab at some folks online when debating, but I don't go about murdering anyone with my tongue offline. In fact, all of you - liberal or conservative are some of the finest folks in Pentecost.
- I'm faithful to my wife.
- I respect the property of others and I don't take what's not mine.
- I don't lie about people.
- And I try not to loose sight and become consumed with wanting what others might have. (I sincerely struggle here sometimes.)

Those are my spiritual objectives. Most of the time I do well and meet my objectives. But there have been times when I've broken every rule I've set out to keep at one point or another. I have faith that if I focus on those things and do my very best...the rest of it all will fall into place.

That's my path. I trust some of you have a different approach. Some of you might have a better approach. But I don't focus on the traditions of men so much anymore.

Sounds like a good principled approach!