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View Poll Results: Is Gods Love Unconditional?
Gods love is unconditional. 19 73.08%
There are conditions upon his love. 7 26.92%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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  #91  
Old 06-04-2013, 02:22 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
It seems people are getting God's love confused with conditions for salvation (and election).

I also see some are flirting with Calvin/Augustine in their understanding of Romans 9.

I see a new thread coming... lol
I never flirt with men. Paul got his understanding from Christ. He would have not dared speak his own thoughts.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44

65 And he said , Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back , and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve , Will ye also go away ? John 6:65

I have never read anything by Augustine. I think I tried to read Calvin once for about 10 minutes.

The words of Christ are spirit and they are life. I read them daily and he blesses!
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  #92  
Old 06-04-2013, 02:58 PM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post

I never flirt with men.

I think that is a good practice, my brother!
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  #93  
Old 06-04-2013, 03:02 PM
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
I think that is a good practice, my brother!
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  #94  
Old 06-04-2013, 04:13 PM
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

What is meant by 'unconditional love'? Has anyone in this thread who supports the idea that his love is 'unconditional' actually defined what they mean by that?
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  #95  
Old 06-04-2013, 04:33 PM
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
What is meant by 'unconditional love'? Has anyone in this thread who supports the idea that his love is 'unconditional' actually defined what they mean by that?
What I meant was the doctrine most people seem to embrace. When they become a Christian God gave them unconditional love. Therefore that love being unconditional does not change regardless of their actions.

You know they always accuse us of believing we must PERFORM in order to be saved. From their view they think since his love is WITHOUT CONDITION then what we DO does not matter.

My own view is that out INITIAL SALVATION is by Gods mercy only. We cannot bring any works to God and by them be justified. We come purely by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

However once we are a newcreation we are expected to actually begin to DO HIS WILL. The newcreation man actually desires to do his will. But if one does not take the cross and live according to the teachings of Christ they will be overcome again by sin.

And IF one is overcome by sin and begins yielding to it God will eventually take his love from them. So that's what I mean. If we refuse to do his commandments he will not continue loving us. We will have become his enemy.
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  #96  
Old 06-04-2013, 05:23 PM
MarcBee MarcBee is offline
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
It seems people are getting God's love confused with conditions for salvation (and election)....
No, in NT, god's love is often closely linked in with salvation, and therefore the conditions for salvation. It's a natural question to consider the "conditions" by which one may or may not see "love" do something practical (such as the avoidance of eternal torture), and not just theoretical. John 3:16 is one example.

Here's another example, in human terms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A2MBneb7lc
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  #97  
Old 06-04-2013, 07:04 PM
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Where do you get this?

If anything happened before we were ever born it was the choosing of the elect.

11 (For the children being not yet born , neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand , not of works, but of him that calleth 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written , Jacob have I loved , but Esau have I hated . Rom. 9:11-13

God did chose us before we were ever born on an unconditional basis. This is the only context where the term "unmerited favor" applies. It was based on nothing that we did. We were not even born.

It was going to be according to the purpose of God. He decided before the world began to draw certain ones to himself. He also decided not to draw certain others. Jacob he loved before he was born. Esau he hated before he was born.

Paul continues:

14 What shall we say then ? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid . 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy , and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion . 16 So then it is not of him that willeth , nor of him that runneth , but of God that sheweth mercy . Romans 9:14-16

Note God does not say he will have compassion and mercy on everyone but rather upon whom he will. Paul defends God by saying there is nothing wrong with that. Paul shows us why God is just in doing it that way.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up , that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth . 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault ? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God ? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Rom. 9:17-21

Paul reasons since God made the vessels he has the right to do whatever he wants with them. Some he makes for honor others for dishonor. This is called "the sovereignty of God".

So our calling or drawing to God is unconditional in that its based soley on the will of God. As Paul said "who has resisted his will"?

He continues

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known , endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called , not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? Rom. 9:22-24

Rather than loving all mankind in the mothers womb some are prepared as vessels fitted to destruction. Paul said God is willing to show his wrath and make his power known unto the vessels of mercy.

So it seems we can say Gods love is unconditional in the drawing of the elect. He draws they come. He has willed it to be so. And yet when they do come he then sets out conditions for his love.

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. John 15:9-10

The condition he presents to us is if we keep his commandments we will remain in his love. It isn't that hard to see but I admit its much different than many have been taught.

The true God is love. But his love is nowhere I know of without condition except before we were born.
Hiya doin Bro,

In the literal days of Jacob and Esau, you would have been "hated" by God too.

He is GOD and HE CHANGES NOT, so does that mean that God still hates us?


When I speak of God's UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, I am referring to the fact that today, all of humanity has a chance for eternal life. This chance was made available to us all BECAUSE of God's LOVE for us.

Christ died for the godly and the ungodly, subjecting himself to the Will of the Father for the sake of all of humanity. It pleased the Father to punish His Son for our sakes. When the people that GOD chose decided to reject Him, GOD, in His LOVE for His Creation, offered all of us a chance of fellowship with Him.

GOD did all of this for us before we were born, before we had a chance to anything to merit His LOVE or to merit a relationship with Him.
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Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 06-04-2013 at 07:07 PM.
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  #98  
Old 06-04-2013, 07:10 PM
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

Whosoever will, let them come.

It's not His Will that any should perish.

For GOD so loved THE WORLD...

THE WORLD has benefitted and is benefitting from the LOVE of GOD right now.
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  #99  
Old 06-04-2013, 07:44 PM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
What I meant was the doctrine most people seem to embrace. When they become a Christian God gave them unconditional love. Therefore that love being unconditional does not change regardless of their actions.

You know they always accuse us of believing we must PERFORM in order to be saved. From their view they think since his love is WITHOUT CONDITION then what we DO does not matter.

My own view is that out INITIAL SALVATION is by Gods mercy only. We cannot bring any works to God and by them be justified. We come purely by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

However once we are a newcreation we are expected to actually begin to DO HIS WILL. The newcreation man actually desires to do his will. But if one does not take the cross and live according to the teachings of Christ they will be overcome again by sin.

And IF one is overcome by sin and begins yielding to it God will eventually take his love from them. So that's what I mean. If we refuse to do his commandments he will not continue loving us. We will have become his enemy.
Just so you know, I agree with this..

What you ascribe as God's Mercy, I ascribe as God's LOVE and John 3:16 backs me up very plainly in this. In His UNCONDITIONAL LOVE for us, for the whole world, His Mercy is offered to us.


His LOVE for the world makes salvation possible for "whosover will."


Just to add, if He loves us before we are saved, how much more will He loves us once we are saved? This is not a license to sin and GOD has His Way of dealing with those of us who choose to practice iniquity.

As the Bible says, Judgment will begin at His House.
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Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 06-04-2013 at 07:47 PM.
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  #100  
Old 06-05-2013, 07:15 AM
Antipas Antipas is offline
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

True agape love is never conditional. Now, fellowship with that love is.
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