Burning the Koran

[Aquila]

He could burn a life sized image of Osama bin Laden. This man's actions might inflame hostilities and cost someone their lives. He needs more wisdom than this. In addition, our troops don't need the entire Islamic world to become increasingly hostile to them. As a citizen, we have to have our soldiers best interest at heart.

Regardless of what any of us believe about Islam, what the man is doing is foolish.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Twisp

That doesn't explain why you think Imam Rauf threatened us when General Petraeus said something very similar. The fact is that both men said, if this happens, Americans could be in danger. Neither man threatened America, but simply stated a fact.

That post is just another one of your "He is an extremest even though there is no proof and there is something else going on here!"

Even if no building has started yet, the project has already started. Imam Raud cannot stop the project now without looking like is giving into religious bigotry and Christian extremism.

The project has started? You apparently don't know construction. There has not been demolition of the old building. Con ed which owns part of the land doesn't have a deal yet. Back taxes are still outstanding.
Your claim is just not true. Fundraising is at the most a sign of intent to build. \
Prove your claim with a link to building permits.
This project is about bigotry from the pretend religious on the left joining the Muslims in hate to the survivorts and many others.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

He could burn a life sized image of Osama bin Laden. This man's actions might inflame hostilities and cost someone their lives. He needs more wisdom than this. In addition, our troops don't need the entire Islamic world to become increasingly hostile to them. As a citizen, we have to have our soldiers best interest at heart.

Regardless of what any of us believe about Islam, what the man is doing is foolish.

More strawman.
The libs say most Muslims are moderate and peaceloving. If they are part of the ALL in the All the Muslim world that will hate, they obviously were NOT moderate to begin with. You are contradicting yourself again.

Hostilities are a core part of Islam. You and Twisp haven't read the Quran or dealt with Muslims.

[deacon blues]

Haven't read the thread but I will first say that preventing the burning of the Koran is hypocritical if you're a part of the free speech crowd. Especially if you've been arguing for the mosque in NYC.
I think this pastor/church are foolhearty for such a stunt. The best way to oppose Islam is to preach the truth that Jesus is the only way to God. Burning a Koran does not obey the command to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations. He that wins souls is wise. This is very unwise.

That being said, the man has a right to do it. Just as the muslims have a right to build their mosque in NYC. The question is the wisdom of it all.

As far as the Islamic world pitching a fit over a burned Koran, give me a break. They already have enough hatred and animous against the West and Christianity, this will not increase recruits to terrorism or somehow sink us deeper into an impasse with these people.

Where are the Christians rioting and killing if a Bible is destroyed or a church is burned or Christians are imprisoned, beaten or killed for their faith? What do we do? We send their countries charitable aid through Christian relief groups when disaster strikes, we send educators to help teach their impoverished populations, we offer technologies to help improve their way of life, we buy their oil, we protect them from rogue nations and terrorists, etc.

They believe death threats and intimidation secures some kind of power and influence over us. It works with some weak folks, but I just shake my head in pity for both groups. Theirs is a false religion predicated upon a false book and a false prophet who made the religion up. They can't win the debate on the merits of their writings and the history of their cause, so violence and domination is their only recourse.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Haven't read the thread but I will first say that preventing the burning of the Koran is hypocritical if you're a part of the free speech crowd. Especially if you've been arguing for the mosque in NYC.
I think this pastor/church are foolhearty for such a stunt. The best way to oppose Islam is to preach the truth that Jesus is the only way to God. Burning a Koran does not obey the command to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations. He that wins souls is wise. This is very unwise.

That being said, the man has a right to do it. Just as the muslims have a right to build their mosque in NYC. The question is the wisdom of it all.

As far as the Islamic world pitching a fit over a burned Koran, give me a break. They already have enough hatred and animous against the West and Christianity, this will not increase recruits to terrorism or somehow sink us deeper into an impasse with these people.

Where are the Christians rioting and killing if a Bible is destroyed or a church is burned or Christians are imprisoned, beaten or killed for their faith? What do we do? We send their countries charitable aid through Christian relief groups when disaster strikes, we send educators to help teach their impoverished populations, we offer technologies to help improve their way of life, we buy their oil, we protect them from rogue nations and terrorists, etc.

They believe death threats and intimidation secures some kind of power and influence over us. It works with some weak folks, but I just shake my head in pity for both groups. Theirs is a false religion predicated upon a false book and a false prophet who made the religion up. They can't win the debate on the merits of their writings and the history of their cause, so violence and domination is their only recourse.

Good post!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by coadie

More strawman.
The libs say most Muslims are moderate and peaceloving. If they are part of the ALL in the All the Muslim world that will hate, they obviously were NOT moderate to begin with. You are contradicting yourself again.

Hostilities are a core part of Islam. You and Twisp haven't read the Quran or dealt with Muslims.

Coadie, this makes my point more important.

If the majority are radical...why inflame them while our troops are in harm's way? Let's imagine someone you love is on the battlefield in Afghanistan. Every day more militants are entering the country to fight American troops. Every day they have to secure and maintain reliable contacts with local leaders, chiefs, tribal leaders, ect. Every day they are trying to win the hearts and minds of the locals. Yet there is now this "buzz" among the population and they are angered. Reports of MORE militants joining the cause and entering the country are forth coming. You're loved one is now in more danger than before. And please note...they volunteered. They deserve better from us. We should not inflame hostilities. We should just allow our troops to do the job they were sent to do. One can aid the enemy by giving them weapons, money, material support, and even by doing things to embolden them and aid them in recruiting more militants. This pastor is throwing fuel on the fire. If ONE American troop dies because of inflamed hostilities over this, that's one troop that may have lived if this wacko preacher wouldn't have inflamed them. If ONE American citizen dies in a response from extremists, this pastor threw the fuel on the fire and motivated the attack. Blood will be on this man's hands and on the hands of those who support this lunacy.

To you it's just a "debate". To many, their lives on are the line in already hostile areas. Why make the locals MORE hostile? I'll tell you... people like this pastor care more about their "message" than they do our troops or human life. They care more about "making a point" to an enemy that is already hostile. Do you think they're more likely to surrender if inflamed? Do you think they will be more likely to submit to what our troops are doing if inflamed? What about "missionaries"? Do you think the cause of the Gospel will advance easier in these regions with the people even more hostile to Christianity? Even the welfare of souls is at risk.

It's almost like this pastor said, "How can I make the enemy even more hostile? How can I make a very bad situation worse?" The pastor is a publicity whore. And he doesn't even care one bit if hostilities over this cost a soldier or an innocent American their lives. He's on the news! His church is getting free advertising! What if when he's burning this Koran there is a mixed crowd of demonstrators opposting it. Peace loving American citizens that don't want him to make this worse. And the moment he sets it on fire someone throws a grenade or IED into the crowd in front of the church killing innocent people??? He doesn't care. Nor do the people who support him. What if some child gets killed in some kind of reprisal? He doesn't care. Nor do the people who support this action.

We opposed the Mosque because it emboldens our enemies. We opposed the Mosque because it might provoke reprisals on law abiding Muslim citizens. Anyone who is consistant will oppose this pastor for the very same reasons. His actions will embolden the enemy and incite reprisals. Innocents might DIE. Do you care? If you support what he's doing it's obvious that you don't.

This is just plain stupid. And the people who support him are stupid too.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

As far as the Islamic world pitching a fit over a burned Koran, give me a break. They already have enough hatred and animous against the West and Christianity, this will not increase recruits to terrorism or somehow sink us deeper into an impasse with these people.

I disagree with you.

Things were going well with that unlawful Iraq Invasion until Abu Gharib.

You folks do remember that terrible fiasco, right?


We should not be afraid of anyone. The decision to not burn the koran should not be based in fear-- it should be based in wisdom and respect.

To say that this event will not have international repercussions is to be naive.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I disagree with you.

Things were going well with that unlawful Iraq Invasion until Abu Gharib.

You folks do remember that terrible fiasco, right?


We should not be afraid of anyone. The decision to not burn the koran should not be based in fear-- it should be based in wisdom and respect.

To say that this event will not have international repercussions is to be naive.

Jermyn... they don't care. They just want to make a "statement" even if it makes the situation worse for our troops or incites reprisals against innocent Americans at home or abroad. For them, they just want to beat a drum and appear strong and tough. The rioting, outrage, and inflamed hostilties that will result are just not important to them. If anyone is killed over this pastor's actions they'll just say, "See, Muslims are violent. Burn more Korans!" And it starts a crazy cycle of increasing violence and hostilities. Some people love watching the news and hearing about how Muslims killed more troops or how Muslims killed more innocent people. In their minds it validates their feelings towards Muslims. They don't care if lives are lost.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I disagree with you.

Things were going well with that unlawful Iraq Invasion until Abu Gharib.

You folks do remember that terrible fiasco, right?


We should not be afraid of anyone. The decision to not burn the koran should not be based in fear-- it should be based in wisdom and respect.

I agree that the pastor is making a bad decision--but he does have the right, as an American citizen, to make bad decisions.

To say that this event will not have international repercussions is to be naive.

The lack of any real "international repercussions" for Muslims wanting to build a mosque is very revealing.

[whoami]

I don't think Jesus would burn Korans if he was on earth in the flesh today. Doesn't seem to fit in with "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Sure they have the legal right to do it, but that doesn't make it a good idea. My husband is in the military, has been for 13 years, and it really worries me to think about the backlash from such a pointless publicity stunt.